The rise and fall of the ’salafi dawah’ in the US (Final, Comments Open)
Previously:
Part Two: The Competition for Converts
Part Four: E.O. and its satellites
Part Five: Northern Virginia/DC area
Part Seven: Boycotting and Excommunication
COMMENTS ARE NOW OPEN
Final Thoughts…
When IANA and other such organizations dissolved after 9/11, the remaining reasonable and moderate American brothers had no place to go and for all purposes – especially with all the fitnah of brothers being arrested – and basically went into hiding and are quietly going on with their lives observing the social anarchy from afar. I have found brothers that were formerly active in the salafi movement - brothers that at the time had big untrimmed beards and exclusively wore thobes - with small trimmed beards, a suit and tie on and wanting nothing to do with the movement. Some were even very anti-salafi.
It also did not help matters when some groups that were opposed to the salafi movement as a whole took the opportunity to scapegoat them after 9/11.
As to the TROID side, they continued to shrink in influence, and have become sort of a punch line. They are the ones associated with ‘salafiyah’ when other Muslims think of salafis. Mention the word ‘Salafi’ to a Muslim what often comes to mind is a criminal who marries several times. They thought it to be “unbeneficial” to address social issues and those very issues ate away at them like acid. They thought it better to “leave these issues” but it never left them.
TROID began to lose influence as the tabloid style emails ceased and they ran out of people to character assassinate. Plus people just got tired. They can’t put together any conferences outside of Philly and Newark, where – even in those places - they are also waning in influence. There is no real solid “movement” in place. Even if one visits a lot of the old salafi websites, one will find that they haven’t been updated in months or sometimes, years. This has contributed to the end of the “cut and paste” era. And Salafis are almost nowhere to be found in the post 9/11 intellectual debate.
As to the remnants of the IANA side of things, some have retooled, run away from the old salafi movement, and have an entirely different focus. These groups do not concentrate on converts anymore and disown the title ‘salafi’ for themselves because they do not want to be associated with the legacy of TROID – for good reason.
Texas Dawah and the Al Maghrib Institute are two examples of such organizations that are pretty balanced and have run away from the salafi label like the plague. I hear that Texas Dawah puts on a pretty good program, but they – along with Al Maghrib - target the college aged (18-25) middle class, children of immigrants. We converts are largely an afterthought in their programs. Converts are welcome to come, but they are not considered in the programs. Some converts that have been around this crowd have even gotten the feeling that they are a “pet convert” and shy away.
Texas Dawah – for example - had over 3,000 attendees at their last conference, but I would be surprised if even 1% of that number were converts. Again, this is not to say that they reject converts, but it is clear that they don’t speak to our issues in their conferences. This is in contrast to the old days when you had large numbers of converts at the old salafi conferences. A crowd of 3,000 would have close to 1,000 converts and several speakers that were themselves converts. Gatherings in East Orange could draw 2,000 people in which 95% were converts. That is just not the case now. No one considers us anymore.
I attended an Al Maghrib class in New Jersey and immediately felt out of place as a convert, because I knew that this program – though very good for its audience – was not for people like me. The crowd was overwhelmingly first or second generation immigrants and middle to upper class young individuals that were either in college or just graduated. Again, nothing wrong with that, but we are left in the cold. Double weekend classes or a once a year conference does not compare to an everyday movement that was a way of life.
I spoke to Muhammad Al Shareef, and I could tell that he just couldn’t relate with a person like me. This is not a criticism of him, as I enjoyed his class – in an abstract way – but I could tell that there was not only a convert/non-convert divide, but a class and social divide. The problems of people like me are not even conceptualized much less thought about, thus many are still in the streets with no place to go. (Another issue is that you can’t rule out the barrier that the fees for the Al Maghrib)
This is why I feel that these new organizations are too limited in their scope to be anywhere near the old days. They are concentrating on the second generation youth - nothing wrong with that - but there are many others out there.
There is little to no talk of community building, raising children, dealing with non-Muslim family and non-Muslim in-laws, cleaning up and reviving neighborhoods, or things of that sort that are of importance to converts. The converts are left with a choice of being left in the cold to observe from the outside as forgetten about relics from a past era or to assimilate completely into the immigrant world and resolve to leave their American identity behind.
If organizations such as Texas Dawah or Almaghrib ever decide that they want to deal with converts, then they will have to take on social problems in order to be affective and not declare them to be “of no benefit”
At one time, things were great, and seemed to be on the move. Then things fell apart as the over zealous element was never put into check and ultimately destroyed everything. There are still brothers floating around that seem to think that it is still 1996, but they are isolated. I feel sorry for brothers like this when I see them, because usually they were not around during the good times and do not know that what they are doing is a dead end, especially without the social support that was around in the 90’s.
As it stands, the movement is a shell of what is used to be. The Islamic Center of America in East Orange seems abandoned compared to how it used to be. In the DC area, there is no fervor amongst the handful of Salafis that are remaining. There are some who remember those days, go to the masjid and pray and do good deeds and in their homes still enjoy the knowledge. Jamatul Al Qawee was taken over by the TROID element and is barely functional via a handful of isolated, triumphalist brothers. There are a few remnants at the Dar as Salaam masjid in Maryland, who have also run away from the salafi movement. Everything else is a faded memory.
Across the country, the salafi masjids folded one by one, until they are nothing more than a handful of sad isolated brothers in a few cities that even now do not realize that the world has moved on without them. They are in for a rude awakening.
The brothers and sisters across the country are left alone… left to pick up the devastating pieces and try to carry on their lives… left to try to fill the huge void in their chests…. left try to live instead of simply exist… left to wait to wander with no place to go.
Isolationism was such a big mistake and that is why I am opposed to it. Even though I look upon those days with fondness - I am left feeling very cynical, jaded and scarred.
Comments are now open…
January 31, 2007 at 3:30 am
Very well written and accurate account of the destruction of the dawah here in America. It made me very sad when I thought about the times of unity. I am one of those that pulled away
January 31, 2007 at 3:47 am
I think what you wrote is very much near the truth but still obviously subjective as it is through your experience that you tell the story.
The reason I say that is because of the comments you made regarding AlMaghrib. AlMaghrib institute -ends up- catering to those with money, yes, but is it meant to be that way? That is debatable.
Also, I don’t think they have a policy of trying to pucker up to a special class of Muslims per say. They obvously are not converts and therefore have certain personalities and certain issues they’ve dealt with all their lives, and certain issues they can relate to easier. Does that mean they are trying to leave out converts in the cold?
I don’t think so. AlMaghrib is not a -convert- association. It is an institute that is supposed to teach Islam, whether the student is a white American convert or a Muslim raised in a Muslim family from Dhaka.. u know what i mean?
However, I DO understand how when a person is in a crowd and sees HARDLY anyone like themselves, they would automatically feel left out. Because THEY simply can’t relate to everyone else.
You get what im saying?
I think the feeling of relating for desis for instances comes from teh teacher using examples from ‘desi’ life or urdu words which Muhammad Shareef does cuz his wife is Pakistani. But he is also quite ‘westernized’ due to his Canadian upbringing, so at some level I personally can’t relate to him in certain moments because I grew up partly back home.
January 31, 2007 at 4:08 am
ummabdullah:
I tried to make it clear that I did not think that almaghrib (or Texas Dawah for that matter) are TRYING to leave out converts, but it is pretty clear to me that they are targeting college aged 2nd generation immigrants. The result - regardless of their intentions - is that converts are left out. Attend a class and tell me how many converts you see - particularly black ones. You will then see my point. Many African-American Muslims have not even heard of almaghrib, yet it is widely talked about - in good and bad ways - in Desi circles.
I am not saying that it is wrong of them to target these 2nd generation youth. The only point I am making is that if people think that these organizations are as dynamic as the past, where you’d see large numbers of converts, then they are sadly mistaken
January 31, 2007 at 4:38 am
Good posts, Umar. Been their, done that, and not coming back. Honestly, there isn’t much to say. The problems in the community are no different than in other faith societies. Really, I’m at a loss for words.
January 31, 2007 at 4:52 am
As-salaamu ‘alaikum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatu,
Wow.
Subhan’Allah, what an amazing series of articles! I’ve learnt quite a bit from them… and just when I needed them, too! I’d just started wondering about the Salafi movement, its history and how it’s doing today, and masha’Allah right on cue you started writing and posting this… :)
Even though I haven’t actually experienced what you did, it made me so sad to read about the decline of the movement… especially since the way you described it as during its peak was just amazing!
I am sure that there’ll be a lot of people who’ll disagree with you about the state of the movement today, but I understand that you’re writing from your own experiences and personal viewpoint…
But y’know… regarding what is so desperately lacking for the converts today… d’you think that something *could* be started up, like the conferences and day-to-day programs that you mentioned in your first posts, once more?
Perhaps I’m just being naive, but I’m sure that if a group of dedicated members of the community - brothers and sisters - got together and worked really hard, they could start something up (albeit on a smaller scale) that would resemble what used to benefit the community ‘back in the day’.
Although, they’d probably have to stay away from the label of ‘Salafi’ if they hope for success in the community…
Anyway, just wanted to say jazakAllahu khair for the wonderful writing and ‘history lesson’!
May Allah help us so that the ‘glory days’ can once more be relived, ameen!
Your little sister in Islam,
Mouse
January 31, 2007 at 5:39 am
assalamu ‘alaikum,
Have read your articles. I think many mistakes were made and the content one is he who learns from other people’s mistakes as Ibn Mas’ud radiallaahu ‘anhu said. However, we have been ordered to follow this blessed path upon righteousness and that was the problem. Lack of knowledge and how to carry this blessed da’wah with correct manners and understanding.
I think the future looks much better inshaallaah as now the scholars are referred to much more. Yes, there was more unity in the pat but not always upon a clear correct basis, unity for the sake of unity. We are all encouraged to be sincere to Allaah first and foremost and know that Allaah is more jealous at protecting His deen than anyone else. It will be protected and it is moving forward upon a correct basis but it has gone through difficult periods. Allaah guides whom He wills. Salvation lies in being with the inheritors of the Prophets to take from where they take from the authentic sunnah not spekaers who concoct their own isolated individual opinions not connected to the path of the pious predecessors. Patience, steadfastness, calling upon Allaah for guidance and humility and submission to the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the Messenger sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam.
Ali Tameemi lecture to the salafees showed that he split away from the scholars by introducing four categories of tawheed and calling upon mixing with other groups. Hiw political stance were similar and in-line with those inprisoned in Saudi for going against the sunnah and speaking out against the governemtn OPENLY. This is why they left him, it was not personal, it was about seeking the truth.
Abu Muslimah was calling to himself isolated from the scholars in his time and establishing the hudood within his own community.
You may dislike something that is good for you. Salafi da’wah in America and across the world is not in decline nor is it about to fall. On the contrary, the correct understanding of it is being strengthened and although due to some speakers has been through some rough times, it is growing and with the brotherhood and correct mannerism bad changes are being made for the better. Purification and education together will improve the situation. Too much of one without the other was one of the problems.
May Allaah guide us all to the truth. Ameen.
January 31, 2007 at 6:29 am
As-Salaamu ‘alaikum,
I started reading about Islam myself during the “cut and paste” era as you called it, and the denunciation culture which caused the bitterness you refer to around the turn of the (21st) century was in evidence as early as the mid 1990s when I first ran upon the Essex Uni Islamic Society site. That site had whole sections dedicated to denouncing various scholars and other personalities that, I was later to discover, were barely known of over here anyway other than as bogeymen to the Brixton type “salafis”.
The movement may have died down a bit, but its legacy is still apparent. I have approached three women of Somali extraction for marriage in recent years and each one has foundered on “salafi” concerns when the sisters did not consider themselves (or at least did not say they considered themselves) part of the sect or movement. One of them asked me question after question about my Sufi commitments and later refused to continue because I hold Ash’ari ‘aqida (”this is ‘aqida we’re talking about”). Another didn’t like my madhhab (Maliki) and insisted that I always follow the majority position, as if Islamic scholarship was some sort of democracy.
My own hunch is that the Saudis who were so keen to supply the western “salafis” with religious material actually didn’t care for them much as people, as they clearly failed to invest in the community and make it self-sufficient in terms of business. This may well be why it fell apart so spectacularly during the “Qutubi inquisition” as the TROID/SPUBS camp called it - although if they had, the consequences might have been even more severe with medium sized businesses going bust as the workforce or directors fell out with each other.
January 31, 2007 at 6:30 am
I just wanted to say that that series was very interesting and well written.
January 31, 2007 at 6:52 am
Umar, this series seriously broke my heart a little bit. It’s really hard for me to think of people so full of hope and faith and just watching it crash and ruin lives. I am not a Salafi and doubt I ever will be; however, I’ve seen the exact same pattern happen in a lot of religious movements and have many friends and acquaintences who have been seriously burned, sometimes to the extent of losing their faith. The funny thing is, a LOT (though not all) of what you describe seems to cut across many movements. I’ve seen it occur with Sufi orders, members of a couple Shia movements, The Hare Krishnas, and Chabad-Lubovitch Jews (though on a smaller scale than you’re talking about, especially with the last one). Obviously all these movements are signifigantlu different, but this pattern seems to crop up a lot, especially in a western setting. I think it’s the logical end-result of giving too much power to fallible humans and relying too much on arbitrary social distinction and not enough on allah, common sense, and basic human decency.
January 31, 2007 at 8:23 am
Well written–you put a lot of heart into this series.
While I personally experienced the salafi movement on the periphery, (I never claimed to be a salafi)I honestly must say that the crux of my Islamic knowledge came from this movement, this fervor that affected my community.
I think I can speak for many sisters from my area/era who also received their free “Islamic Libraries” courtesy of the KSA in the late 1990s; we all read Kitab at-Tawheed and did not understand it, so then had to have a halaqah and a teacher, and we thought we were truly empowered with the knowledge of the deen. We sat with our Mustafa Zahran and Muhammad Adly tapes and memorized surahs from “Quran Made E-Z.” I must have owned 50 khutbah tapes (or more) from Abu Muslimah.
Then we witnessed fitnah, big fitnah in the sisterhood..sisters pronouncing other sisters as deviants or this and that, fights breaking out at the Eid prayer when someone said “Eid Mubarak” (That’s not in the Sunnah, sister!!!) instead of TakabAllahu minna wa minkom. Silliness. Emptiness. Meanwhile many sisters kept having baby after baby and thinking it was their Islamic duty to homeschool eight kids and be dirt poor.
Like you said, much of the problem lay within the isolationism and the condemnation of anything not ‘Salafi;’ it was a self-destruction that could have been avoided by simple things such as teaching jihad-an-nafs instead of putting countless hours into categorizing deviants or refuting the aqeedah of others outside of the Salaf.
Many of us who were on the periphery and not “in the thick of it” I think came out not nearly as scathed as you did, but we have had to start over again learning our Islam and seeking knowledge–having to re-evaluate much of what I thought I knew or what I thought was correct, and most of all, learning what I believe was lacking in the movement from the get-go: profound tolerance.
January 31, 2007 at 9:35 am
When you want to eliminate a threat you go after the voices of reason within that threat. Like Sheikh Ali Al-Timimi.
The super Salifis were never a threat and would have and did self destruct. The same super Salifi brothers that everyone avoided due to their harshness and intolerance, are the ones that most likely were along for the good ride. After times turned bad they moved on to something else.
Those brothers that have sincere Love for Allah (ta aala) and his messenger (saws), and hold on tight to the Quran and Sunah are left to pickup the pieces. Many of those brothers have left the country with their families so they can continue to learn and practice the Haq without compromise. And the brotherhood/sisterhood is very strong. Alhamdulillah.
Is Islam a threat? Absolutely it is when you are championing a system that has failed socially, and there is a movement regardless of how small it maybe that adresses those failures and greatly attracts the lower middleclass and lowerclass of the society. A movement that doesn’t play by the same rules where the people are bound by the Love of their creator and his word, and his prophets more than all of the drugs, sex and distractions you can push on them.
Someone will undoubtedly ask: If the american system is such a failure socially why are so many people trying to get to america from Muslim countries?
Take america’s wealth out of the equation and see how many will want to come. Most are coming from poor countries, and they’re looking for a paycheck. How many come from the rich Gulf states? Other than for education?
Those countries are either secular or monarchies that restrain Islam as much as they can and also have major social problems. Thats why we see a resurgence of Islam all over the world. When the people of Palestine voted they chose an Islamic party. Same goes for Egypt, Algeria and any other country.
January 31, 2007 at 10:09 am
Wow great series, a real eye opener. Many info i did not know. I do not think the problem is with the Salafi crowd you mentioned as they were small but its their influence they had with the other crowd, the Ikhwans that created the problem for muslims and many Sufis.
That influence is what led many of them to remain silent about what happened to the salafis. Its the influence salafism had on ISNA, ICNA and CAIR via the Muslim Brotherhood that created the problem for many muslims as the Salafi influence hindered the political and social progress these groups had. That led to it being shunned by many liberal minded Muslims who could not fit in the Ikhwani thought process such as myself. AS 911 occurred and people began to investigate, the shadow of the Salafi influence in the Ikhwan began to emerge. Just read what the MSA website has to say about Ghazali and tasawwuf to know what i mean. Listen to the fatwas of former Isna president Dr. Muzammil Siddiqui about tawassul and Sufism to know what i mean. The conflict between Kabbani and people like Maher Hathout and CAIR was about that influence. These came to haunt these Ikhwani groups after 911 as they tried to present themselves as “moderate and mainstream” and found many Jewish and right wing groups exposing these links between these Ikhwani groups and salafi theology hence the phrase the “wahhabi lobby”. This is the reason behind the animosity Umar, i tried to explain in the Stephen Schwartz and Hamza Yusuf issue. Its about the Ikhwani groups and the Salafi influence mainly because the founder of the Ikhwan , Hassan Al Banna, established the Salafi theology as the base for the group and rejected Sufism although not outright. In the 70s with Saudi help, the Ikhwani became more pro Salafi and anti Sufi especially the ISNA crowd. It was much easier for someone like Imam Siraj Wahhaj to make it to the ISNA podium or the CAIR board of directors than a Sufi sheikh.A culture emerged where Salafi theology flourished unchallenged till extremism looks like took over and brought it down.
This influence was established mainly in Egypt where Saudi Arabia was in conflict with Gamal Abdul Nasser and Arab nationalism. Saudi then pumped a lot of money on its biggest enemy the Muslim Brotherhood and the relationship continued even stronger in the USA via the Muslim World League where the Muslims Student Association(MSA) was formed. This is what i was trying to explain, Umar, about religion and politics in the Arab world. They go hand in hand. Then ISNA was formed and then ICNA and etc. CAIR was an offshoot of Hamas which itself is branch of The Muslim Brotherhood. All this led to one thing, the cutting off of the Sufis and liberal muslims whose political and theological outlook disagreed with the Muslim Brotherhood. Hense the animosity the Sufis feel and the distance that now these groups(Ikhwanis) want to keep from the Salafi persuasion because after 911 they see that this influence is haunting them.
The Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt today is paralyzed because of this. While other Islamist(Hassan Turabi, Rached Ghanouchi)have moved on, they remain paralyzed. Even the Islamist in Algeria and Iraq moved on from the Salafi understanding of Islam. Accepted Democracy and women rights grudgingly and moved on. There is nothing wrong with Salafi style you are talking because it was not political but socio religious. The groups you refer to payed the price but they were not involved in politics. Its its ties (Salafism)with the political Islam that is deadly. This is what you are seeing with Bin Laden and Ayman Al Zawahiri appearing together, the Muslim Brotherhood Salafi link.
January 31, 2007 at 10:59 am
Umar, bro:
You write about the Salafi movement in a praise-worthy way, and mention it’s elements in a positive light (that of your experience) - while I recognize some benefits within that movement, I’d like to mention my own experience and address what I saw in that light.
I accepted Islam in the late 90s after - late high school, punk & hip-hop & social activism - reading from three muslim minds: Imam Ghazali, studying Rumi, and Malcolm X. The Islam that I encountered was immediately intellectual, astute, spiritual, and aware - something that I didn’t encounter with many of the muslims I met.
While I prayed (and eventually learnt some Hanafi/ Deobandi fiqh from) the Tableeghi Jamaat folk, I also read and encountered every other muslim group - though my most memorable impression of Salafis from that time was their escaping from the local Salafi mosque (as they said, “dar-ul-ikhtilaf” to pray in the Gujarati /Tableeghi mosque, while still mocking the prayer (”the imam made 23 mistakes” was the greeting one brother made after finishing the ‘asr Salaat) and deen of their brethren.
An aggressive attitude, on the streets with pamphlets and shouting in the mosques, a self-righteous attitude and conformist appearance (scraggly beard and loose-fitting thobe) was what one saw of ‘Salafis’ - and you could forget even discussing Imam Ghazali or Traditional Islamic fiqh with them, they wouldn’t have read Imam Shafi’is Risala, but what little they picked up from Abu Ameenah Bilal Phillips told them that every methodology but their own was deviant.
Hearing ’shirk/bidah/kufr’ repeated ad nauseam, meant that I stopped talking with them - there were cultural problems in the Indian sub-continental muslims, but they were at least polite to me, if not understanding of western culture and the issues a ‘former Christian anarchist’ might bring, and uninterested in dawah.
I also met ‘Sufis’ who were clearly deviant - and abandoned them, but it was encountering a genuine scholar from a Qadiri tariqa, with the knowledge of Qur’an and Sunnah, and the practice and adaab that one saw in the text - that made me sure that it wasn’t just in the books, but that the Sunnah was meant to be encountered and lived, beyond the thobe and the miswak.
I met the TROID people in Toronto - and talked with them, visited their mosque, and found some young kids who while sincere and dedicated to practicing the deen as best they knew, refused to consider the basis of what they were saying, and the crude manner in which they were assaulting others - their self-righteousness had absorbed them.
I remember one Algerian brother in particular, who though some brothers I knew (Jamaat-ul-Fuqra, incidentally) had helped him out when he first entered Canada as a refugee, had moved over to the ’salafi jihadist’ side, and spent his time “purifying the deen” and assaulting (physically, in my case, saying I was “a Christian missionary! Asha’ri deviant! Sufi!”) brothers who disagreed with him. While other Salafi brothers disagreed with him, he was left in his ‘teaching’ position in the daw’ah center.
I also lived in Saudi for a year and half, and saw what indulgence goes on there, while the population starves, and most of the ’salafi jihadists’ rant in private homes or khutbas, the Sau’di State is far more craven to the US administration than even pro- neo-con ’sufis’ like Kabbani.
In summation, I think I’d agree with bin Gregory in the other post - while Sunni muslims would agree in theory with all of your ‘if “Wahabis” believe this’ post questions, your attitude and demeanor is not going to lead towards the reconciliation you call for (which ignores that Salafis, including ‘Let’s unite’ Yasser Qadhi, who has certainly slandered Sufi scholars such as Imam Mohammed al-Alawi al-Maliki - calling someone ‘kufr and mushrik’ is serious, bro - you what happens to one who’s takfir returns to him)
In brief, I would hope for reconciliation between muslims, but that has to be sincere amongst Salafis - along with a recognition that the rhetoric of blaming “Sufis, Jews, Americans” for their own problems is just not a workable strategy.
January 31, 2007 at 11:03 am
Abu Sara:
You are spouting off AT LEAST one LIE that has been repeated, and that is about Abu Muslimah. He has NEVER called for the hudood to be implemented in his community. I know him PERSONALLY and have known him for some time, and he is not as you or TROID represent him.
As for your representation of the current state of the dawah, then I don’t know which America you are living in, but in the one I live in, there are hardly any brothers remaining.
Yes we should respect the scholars and scholarship, but they are not ONLY in Saudi Arabia. You all’s vision of Islam is for every masjid in America to be lifeless, dour and listening to tele-links all the time with no other activity at all.
January 31, 2007 at 2:18 pm
This was a good story that I can identify with on some levels in my former marriage. When I first met my husband, he was a “strong salafi” with a long beautiful beard, he wore thobes and was hard on others for not following the Sunnah. To make a long story short, he descended to the point where no longer has a beard, drinks alcohol, doesn’t pray or fast and I am not even sure that he is Muslim now. At best he is BARELY Muslim. At worse he is an apostate. “Salafi Burnout” is real…I have seen it and it can be devastating.
Alhamdulillah, I was one of the lucky ones because I completed my degree while we were married and I have a good job and I am able to take care of myself and our kids. I feel so sad for those sisters who were forced to stay with their husbands as they reverted to their old ways because they had no way of taking care of themselves due to lack of education or job experience. I have heard of salafi niqaabi sisters taking their clothes off and leaving abusive salafi husbands and returning to the arms of a kaafir who “knows how to treat a woman”. It is really sad.
January 31, 2007 at 2:19 pm
as salaamu alaikum wa ramatu Allah. I’ve been Muslim for a few years now and had a very negative impression about salafies (due to the stories I’ve heard - continue to hear, particularly in reference to the black Muslim community - about them in philly and the few salafy sisters I’ve came in contact with). I’m have mixed emotions about this - I feel sad that I never got a chance to experience the good days, but joyful I missed all the drama that came along with it. The sadness is due to the fact that as an American convert, many times I do not feel a complete connection to the community, though I am very active at the masjid and in my community. Part of me is just longing for the day, I truly feel connected.
January 31, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu,
This was a very interesting read..I actually read these posts before even checking my e-mail in the morning. I have a ton of questions though. I have been with those brothers who openly attribute themselves to the Salafee Da’wah for almost two years now; they are linked to TROID, Spubs and such organizations although most of them are not as harsh/hardline at least as the stereotypical Salafees. I also take AlMaghrib classes, and frequent other conferences if I feel they may be beneficial (whether it’s a Zaytuna function, or RIS) as sometimes those seminars address issues of purifying the heart that are lacking amongst the Salafiyyoon, yet it is part of the manhaj of the Salaf to cleanse the hearts.
However, I’ve got some questions for you. You mentioned that there appeared some ulemaa that no one had heard of after the passings of Ibn Baaz, Al-Albaanee, and Ibn Uthaymeen (rahimahumullah). Where were the likes of Shaykhs Ahmad An-Najmee, Rabee, Ubayd, Muhammad Al-Anjaaree, Zayd Al-Madkhalee, Muhammad Al-Madkhalee, Saalih As-Suhaymee, Muhammad Ibn AbdulWahhab Al-Banna and Falaah Ismaeel (hafidhahumullah) during the lifetimes of Ibn Baaz, Al-Albaanee, and Ibn Uthaymeen. I ask because it is usually the scholars I just mentioned who are known for bringing the refutations on individuals or speaking in defense of the TROID/Spubs crew. On top of that, some of the famous du’aat who have spent years studying in the Jamiyyahtul Madeenah have told me that no one really refers to “Ahmad An-Najmee and the two Madkhalees” except the TROID/Spubs crew. However, it seemed that reading what the three A’immaa of the generation said about Shaykh Rabee and Shaykh An-Najmee’s scholarship on paper(from fatwa-online) seems to me that they are legitimate kibaar ul ulemaa. I would agree that sometimes they are fed information that is not correct and give rulings based upon that, and of course Shaykh An-Najmee is in the middle of nowhere, in Jeezan so he could be out of touch as to what the Muslims really need in America. So I would appreciate if you could answer these, you can e-mail me if you do not want to post it on the comments.
In summary, what I see of the Salafees is that they are strict in their principles and they say about Ali At-Timimi, Abu Muslimah, Abu Usamaah that they went against the manhaj(and they bring the proofs) and they say “Although these brothers were loved by us, we are about preserving the manhaj and not the people, our walaa and baraa is based upon the Haqq”. They said that they have ulemaa who have preceded them in this (Shaykh Rabee for Abu Muslimah and Shaykh Najmee/Zayd Al-Madkhalee for Abu Usamah); I’m not sure what radd they have for Ali. Some brothers do get carried away and throw whoever they feel makes a mistake off the manhaj; for instance, I talked to the Imaam of the local Salafee masjid about Yasir Qadhi being refuted on a 45 page PDF on Troid and he disagreed with it, along with alot of the stuff on Salafitalk based upon there were no ulemaa making such statements. However, there is still that attitude the anyone who goes to conferences that are not openly Salafee, whether it is Texas Da’wah, ISNA, RIS, JIMAS should be looked at with suspicion if not labelled a hizbee. JazakAllaahu Khair for the posts.
January 31, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Umm Farooq wrote:
Then we witnessed fitnah, big fitnah in the sisterhood..sisters pronouncing other sisters as deviants or this and that, fights breaking out at the Eid prayer when someone said “Eid Mubarak” (That’s not in the Sunnah, sister!!!) instead of TakabAllahu minna wa minkom. Silliness. Emptiness. Meanwhile many sisters kept having baby after baby and thinking it was their Islamic duty to homeschool eight kids and be dirt poor.
Tell me about it. Those things were enough to start a war. I never understood how a person without any credentials or even a high school diploma thought that they could homeschool. Much of it came from us trying to make ourselves suffer in the name of taqwa. It is one thing to go through tests and suffering as we all do, but to put the suffering on yourself is something else
January 31, 2007 at 2:45 pm
abusarah im sorry to say this but your post reminded me of the narrow mindedness and ignorance of many of those who equate themselves to “salafi dawah”.
You mention “introducing” a 4th category of Tawhid. Please know that the Prophet saw never taught CATEGORIES to begin with my dear brother as far as I know. These were simply categories the ulama came up with to help Muslims understand tawhid and shirk.
In our times, the 4th category is sometimes used to explain that ruling by Allah’s rule is also part of tawhid.
Really, when you learn from like 4 scholars and make everyone else deviant, its likely that yu’ll come with these types of opinions. Because these are opinions. A scholar that you learn from isn’t infallible so his opinion can also be mistaken. So to try to fight everyone else with an opinion is kind of wacko don’t you think?
January 31, 2007 at 3:03 pm
As Salamaualikum,
I can just about to remember the good old days in the UK. But the fitnah knocked me sideways for a while.
It is sad to see salafis still sprouting the same old late 90’s Salafi polemics and distortions with regards to Ali
Timimi for example, I cannot beleive that people still think he was calling to 4 types of Tawheed, and even if he was that that means he was splitting awat from the scholars! Whatever that implies. Seriously, a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing. This typifies what went on with the Salafi problems in the 90’s. If the zealous ones had listened to the advice of people like Shaykh Ali Timimi who warned of this cancer which had started in 96 we would have been better off. As it happened it was mainly the talks and courses of
Shaykh Ali Timimi from 97 onwards which he conducted in London which had a tremendous impact on the Salafi movemement in the UK. Hence you still find many strong brothers and sisters in London even after 9/11 who are active, in high eman insha’allah whereas the Salafis in the US or the SP style Salafis in Uk are dead. Unfortunately by that time most Salafis had sected themselves and avoided good brothers like Ali as a religous obligation, thus depriving them of much needed knowledge and Eman boosting when the times got tough. I think this was an example of group control which was effectively practiced by many zealous Salafis in those days.
We have to move on. Islam is not in need of us we are in need of Islam.We need to strive for the rest of our lives to establish the religon, the good old days will actually be the days of the future insha’allah….but it was good to reminicise..for a while.
Jazakhallah Khair Umar i enjoyed reading that.
January 31, 2007 at 3:08 pm
As Salamaualikum,
I can just about to remember the good old days in the UK. But the fitnah knocked me sideways for a while.
It is sad to see salafis still sprouting the same old late 90’s Salafi polemics and distortions with regards to Ali
Timimi for example, I cannot beleive that people still think he was calling to 4 types of Tawheed, and even if he was that that means he was splitting awat from the scholars! Whatever that implies. Seriously, a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing. This typifies what went on with the Salafi problems in the 90’s. If the zealous ones had listened to the advice of people like Shaykh Ali Timimi who warned of this cancer which had started in 96 we would have been better off. As it happened it was mainly the talks and courses of
Shaykh Ali Timimi from 97 onwards which he conducted in London which had a tremendous impact on the Salafi movemement in the UK. For example:
http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/audio/altimimi_index.htm
Hence you still find many strong brothers and sisters in London even after 9/11 who are active, in high eman insha’allah whereas the Salafis in the US or the SP style Salafis in UK are dead. Unfortunately by that time most Salafis had sected themselves and avoided good brothers like Ali as a religous obligation, thus depriving them of much needed knowledge and Eman boosting when the times got tough. I think this was an example of group control which was effectively practiced by many zealous Salafis in those days.
We have to move on. Islam is not in need of us we are in need of Islam.We need to strive for the rest of our lives to establish the religon, the good old days will actually be the days of the future insha’allah….but it was good to reminicise..for a while.
Jazakhallah Khair Umar i enjoyed reading that.
January 31, 2007 at 3:09 pm
salam… I’ll need more time to digest all the info. here, but the collection did touch on many of our experiences, as a group of MSA students in Houston. Mostly immigrants, so we were the few (dare I say the proud) who were not converts in the QSS crowds. Yasir Q. was our friend and main influence, and he affected many of us, and continues to affect us and many more now. And Mashallah he modified his approach early on (re: TROID, etc.), and continues to do temper his message and re prioritize his efforts.
In any case, I think the title did seem a little out of the place…and it is already being used pejoratively by some (Eteraz referred to this series, so you know they weren’t using it in context of the content)..I feel that it wasn’t the demise of the dawah, but more a sub-group within the dawah that “crashed” or “shrunk”. Or alternatively, the organizational aspects (QSS/IANA) disappeared… but the dawah is healthy, though it is going through a ‘return to roots’ kind of affects, i.e. to remove the marginal elements, and those who would like to bring those marginal opinions into the dawah as being the only “salafi” opinions.
Br. Umar, on Texas Dawah, I can speak to you from a very intimate point of view. I took Texas Dawah (TDC) to the national level in 2003 with the help of Allah of course (Sh. Waleed and myself were the main organizers)… And I continue to stay involved with it, though my move to NE has tempered my ability to organize too many things for TDC. So, I can speak for TDC, and I can tell you that we did and do recognize the lack of “native” Muslims. As far as their numbers… I would suspect that we have about a 5%, so it is more than 1% but still a long way to go…
Do understand that Houston doesn’t have that many converts (esp. African Americans who are upon the “Sunnah”… most of them are influenced by WD Muhammad)… Most of our target audience reside up in the NE. So, travel costs is a natural impediment, esp. for those who do not have significant means. And as you know, the TROID/SPUBS’sh influence is very strong up here in Philly, etc… and they consider TDC/Maghrib as not being on the “haqq”.
However, we would like to improve/enhance the “convert” participation… If you would like to be part of the solution, then that can be done! TDC has and is always open to change, and constructive criticism. We pride ourselves in being flexible, and “fresh”. So, feel free to email me, and I can get you involved, if you wish and if you have the time. TDC is very special to me and a lot of people. It is the only Conference of its kind left in America, and it is different from all others in methodology, and in the type of programming. It has the potential to become a lot more… if the people on the Dawah of Ahl-Sunnah want it to be.
jazakAllah khair for the excellent rendition.
January 31, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Aboo Sumayah wrote:
In summary, what I see of the Salafees is that they are strict in their principles and they say about Ali At-Timimi, Abu Muslimah, Abu Usamaah that they went against the manhaj(and they bring the proofs)
If I may chime in, what happened after these brothers were boycotted? Why did the entire institutions that were built - with much money, sweat and tears - have to be destroyed????? Why did families have to be broken up?
What was the dawah like when the above mentioned brothers were in charge and what was it like when the Madinah dropouts and those who “sat” in Yemen took over?
Were not those who took over the dawah from the likes of Abu Muslimah and Abu Usamah the same ones that marry for a period and leave the pregnant not to be heard from again? Aren’t these the same brothers who use their status as a “daiee” to get wives in much the same fashion a Baptist preacher does to get es?
Why were brothers with these social problems hoisted upon us as examples of “noble du’aat” while an honorable family man like Abu Muslimah was slandered to no end??????
Marriage did not become the joke it is today until they took over.
You lead by example
January 31, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Assalaamu alaikum,
I am not aware of the conditions of the current du’aat although I have heard some things through the grapevines especially the brothers from SP in the UK. So there are two issues here; that the scholars (as I have mentioned above) do not understand the dynamics going on as a result of a boycott, and secondly: these issues (of the du’aat abusing their rights) should be taken back to those scholars (if they are the ‘ulemaa’ in the first place..perhaps that is the question).
My post was not addressed to societal breakdowns or marriage problems in the first place and as a single brother in college I am not speaking from that perspective, but from the perspective of ’seeking the truth’. JazakAllaahu Khair.
January 31, 2007 at 3:27 pm
If I may add…no doubt that the fact that there was a societal/family breakdown due to the boycott and character assasinations indicates that this is a far greater evil than accomodating whatever ‘bidah’ the du’aat were doing..so that is agreed upon. That is a whole another angle that Umar addressed which was quite insightful that I had no idea about.
January 31, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Salam alaikoum
Umar this was fascinating and well done, macha Allah. Still digesting but wanted to comment.
January 31, 2007 at 5:29 pm
As salaamu ‘alaykum Umar,
I hate to skip over all that you’ve written and focus immediately on the comments about AlMaghrib, but at the same time maybe it is good to focus on where we are now and where we go from here.
The main point I would make is that AlMaghrib is designed to teach Islamic sciences to people, it is not designed to be a movement. So saying it is not a movement which attracts converts is irrelevant.
AlMaghrib was started in the Dar us Salaam community in Maryland which is designed to be a holistic approach to building Muslim community here in the West, and Dar us Salaam does have converts as a significant part of its community.
I also think if one takes a step back from the idea of a “Salafi Movement” one might see that many of the most important ideas of the movement which were good and correct are actually as influential among all types of Muslims in the U.S. as ever before. If people have learned to abandon the nonsense and superficialities through the painful experiences of the recent past then this is nothing but good.
No doubt there remains a need for strong Muslim communities in the U.S. that address the particular needs and issues of “Convert” Muslims. The fact that there aren’t such communities in general cannot be the fault of anyone except us Convert Muslims.
May Allaah (swt) forgive us and allow us to do better in the future.
There are some interesting attempts out there, however, for one close to my heart check out http://www.imancentral.org
Allaah knows best
January 31, 2007 at 5:38 pm
As salaamu ‘alaykum,
I know you think I always argue with you and am unfair to you in my comments ya Umar but I never saw the point of writing I agree with this I agree with this I agree with this in a comment. Forgive me if I come across bad.
So I do want to clarify as a white convert who deals mostly with African American and other inner city converts and has also attended more than 10 AlMaghrib classes in cities all over the country that you are right that in general I feel when I’m at AlMaghrib classes that I am in a different world that really does not understand or relate to the issues I deal with in my masjid.
Still I love all of the Shayookh and many of the students in those classes and always come away from the classes inspired by the beauty of the deen and having learned a lot that can benefit any community. We cannot expect people from different backgrounds to teach us how to deal with issues that we know and they do not know. We learn the deen of Islaam and the responsibility is upon us to create communities where the deen responds to the issues that we are faced with.
And I don’t think anyone will disagree with that, so let’s get to work inshAllaah.
MANA (Muslim Alliance in North America) is another group seeking to do this which inshAllaah will be becoming more active in the near future if people are looking for efforts to support.
January 31, 2007 at 5:44 pm
I just wanted to say I don’t know why I wrote the term ‘white convert’ in my post….although I understand that some other people may see me as white and I have to deal with the legacy of white supremacy in this country from that vantage point I do not consider myself as ‘white’ and hate to use that term for myself.
I am in no way ashamed of my heritage, to the contrary as my kunya indicates I am very proud of it but I consider myself as Irish, a background with a language, with a history of struggle against oppression, identification with the oppressed and a belief in God, not some nonsensical background of ‘white’ which means nothing positive to me.
Sorry for the digression but I had to say that.
January 31, 2007 at 6:18 pm
Abu Noor al-Irlandee, I am a so called African American. I am not from the inner city so I cannot relate to the struggles of those who grew up in such conditions. Why do you assume all blacks come from the inner city? Would it be fair to say all European American converts come from rural America and trailer parks? NO! I grew up on Long Island, surrounded by European Americans, I often attend functions at Dar Us Salaam community in College Park, MD, still I do not feel like I fit in because we the sisters do not like to stand near becaue of my brown skin.
Neither PGMA nor Dar Us Salaam addresses the needs of converts (this is my issue with ummah and what causes me to feel disconnected).
A few of these issues include the shock of dealing with racist Muslims; sisters not having walis, or being given a wali who will attempt to marry her to anything (a brother he certainly wouldn’t allow his sister to deal with); step parenting (my exhusband is Christian, so naturally I had to make one of the toughest decisions in my life and leave him, but I found some difficulty in finding a spouse because brothers ASSUMED I was looking for a father for my children, some sisters even told me to give them to their nonMuslim father so I could find a husband easier - fortunately I’ve never been in the game of shortchanging myself and my parents would have kicked my behind) - point is many men do not want to assume the role of stepfather, yet the sons of convert women need to have excellent examples of Muslim men in the home (same of the girls); adapting (not pretending ot be Arab, Pakistani or AFrican, wherever the husband is from. I’m probably the only sister who’s husband was FORCED to eat mostly American food because I refused to give evolve into something I wasn’t (a nonAMerican).
Should I go to a masjid in the inner city, perhaps, but I’m sure I will still feel the disconnect since I am not a product of the inner city. Whatever they are dealing with may not relate to me, such as the sisters in Philly saying it’s okay to be on welfare (because it’s an act of piety).
You should never be ashamed of who you are. I am black, not African American. My father is Native American, my mother is Native American and Black American. I am not ashamed of either legacy. The black folks who make the news because of whatever they are doing wrong do not reflect me and neither do the Muslims who are doing wrongs reflect me - I never apologize for either group, and have no intentions on doing so. It does get annoying at tiems because ignorant people tend to lump everyone in the same category, like one Arab guy asked me at work, what’s with all the black on black violence. I asked him the same - the oppressed and disenfranchised Arabs are acting the same way as the blacks in the Middle East (killing their own people)…aaah you should have seen his face ;)
Sorry, Umar for going off topic
January 31, 2007 at 6:30 pm
asalamu aliakum
The posts were definately a good read and although I wasn’t there I almost feel a longing for the “good old days” as you described…..
January 31, 2007 at 6:52 pm
As salaamu ‘alaykum Hanifah bint Will,
I apologize if my comment was not clear but I was not trying to say what you think I was trying to say. I have never thought that all African Americans come from the inner city.
January 31, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Assalamu Alaykum
I anxiously awaited the end of this series and alhamdulillah first I must commend the brother Umar for his well thought out and written series. Truly I enjoyed it. I used to be a Strong Salafee Sister (caps intended) I was married to one of the duaat that in the 90’s was really pumping the dawa. I remember the fitnah and kalam that came after all that stuff jumped off with Abu Muslimah..I remember the fitnah and animosity between Abu Usamah and Dawud Adeeb and I remember the phone calls that preceeded the creation of the SSNA and I remember thinking that the problem was not the Super Salafees (which is a term that came from the camp of those who were warned about) and it wasnt about minhaj..It was really all about personalities. The dawa was built in the UK and the USA on the backs of people worship and personality worship. You were judged by the collection of books and tapes that you had and the closeness of the relationship that you had to the major duaats at those times. NO ONE cared if the person that they were getting knowledge from was a good person or father. Noone cared if there were children who were abandoned by muslim men who used the dawa as an excuse to marry frequently and divorce just as fast!
I remember sisters commenting on the way that I personally was treated due to who I was married to. They saw that there was some hero worship by association. I used to hear Masha Allah all the time and the envious look on sisters faces when they knew that I was so and so’s wife. Little did they know that I wasnt taught a thing nor were my children. They didnt know that I was as unknowledgable as they were. All they saw was the outside illusion of a strong salafee home.
You couldn’t complain about your problems to anyone because the brothers you chose as a mediator would be afraid to lose the friendship of the man you were married to. Nothing was kept private because of their need to close to that man. It sucked being a “salafee” wife. It truly did.
When Shaykh Al Albanee die..I cried. I cried because I knew that this was the end of the dawa in the way that we knew it, because even though my life was a sham..I really believed in the truth of the salafee dawa. After all we were practicing Islam upon the way and understanding of the pious predecessors..right? It HAD to be the right way. But after the big threes death it came to pass. After 9/11 everything changed. I dont think the Salafee dawa has recovered since and who ever thinks that the dawa is as strong as it once used to be is sadly wrong and living in a bubble. I dont think that the dawa has died but I think that as the younguns have gotten older and yes sisters are raising a gang oof kids alone…I believe a more centrified path of Islam has become more popular and t hats the way that it should be.
I’m one of those sisters that fell off. And when I say that I fell off..I mean I fell off…I went from wearing full niqaab and jilbaab with gloves to wearing jeans, tims and a hijaab. I will listen to music occasionally and I dont shy away from the tv and honestly..I doubt if Im ever going to be a badge wearing salafee sister again but what I am is a more concerned, true to myself muslimah. I dont miss the atmosphere of lies and deception that overwhelmed the salafees in America. I dont miss the brothers clamoring to marry me based on my past and I dont miss the brothers that tried to persuade me to commit sexual acts because we were “getting to know one another”. I dont regret the children that I do have as a result of my marriages(yes more than 1) to salafee brothers and although I didnt complete my degree..I dont regret being an “uneducated” muslimah because Allah will always provide for those who are sincere and yes I am sincere so I am provided for(and I dont mean section 8 provision)…My point is please dont look down on the sisters from that era. We were like sheep protected from the putside world in a cocoon of chosen books, tapes and sister friends. Everything we did was controlled. Everything we heard was “spun”. When we were told of our husbands cheating ways…we accepted out husbands explanations because we were SALAFEE and salafees were supposed to be the best and stayed away from the lies(right??)
Brother Umar..you have inspired me to start a blog of my own. I doubt anyone would believe just how crazy my life has been and for a while I was very bitter towards the salafees for not being able to prevent the evil that did affect the sisters. I have to say I am a little afraid that someone may figure out who I am but you know what..who cares..(lol) maybe my story will really helps someone out there and I never ever want a sister to be in the kind of situation that I was in and to some degree still am. Good work Ahkee..and Jazak Allahu Khair!
January 31, 2007 at 8:34 pm
Myopic Vison, I hope you use wordpress for your blog. Please stop by my blog and let me know when you set up.
BTW….I think I know who you are but I could be wrong…I’m sure your story, unfortunately, is not unique. Don’t worry my lips are sealed.
January 31, 2007 at 9:03 pm
Assalaamu ‘Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakatuh.
Jazaq Allahu Khairun Umar Lee for the well-written series.
I believe the decline of the “salafi” movement and the subsequent feeling of “confusion”, “loneliness”, “emptyness”, “defeatism”, and “pacifism” that is found amongst many of its adherents today is really due to the “manifestation” of the manhaj that has been planted in the chests - it was only a matter of time for the “burnout” shall I say. Therefore one needs to look at the source in order to truely start the “rectification” process.
Why is it after so much supposedly - “tarbiyyah & tasfiyah” in the form of lectures, conferences, books, etc reminding of the ahadeeth of the ghurabah, the promise of victory, instilling “tawheed”, “aqeedah”, “sunnah” & “salafiyah” etc that one finds oneself in this predicament? - this feeling of defeatism:
- an internalized feeling of defeat, mournfulness and melancholia which eventually imprisons one in a dark everlasting corridor. It is like a labyrinth or a path that splits without end. Once one is trapped in that space, it is hard to get out of there. Defeatism drains the energy needed in order to revive. From this defeatism a collective frustration comes into being and one result of this frustration is to “blame others” without any desire for critical self-introspection.
And all this to me is simply the fruit of the aqeedah & manhaj of irjaa and the straying away from the issues of al-Walaa wal Baraa.
Personally 9/11 was a wake up call. A blessing and an opportunity to rectify oneself in line with the aqeedah and manhaj of “At Taifa Al Mansoorah” were true happiness really lies.
Imraan bin Husayn quoted Allah’s Messenger (SAW) saying: “There will continue to remain a group from my nation fighting for the truth, dominant over those who oppose them untill the last of them fight Dajjal, the anti-Christ.” (Sunan Abu Dawood: vol 2, pp 686-7, no. 2478 and authenticated in Saheeh Sunan Abee Dawood vol 2, pg 471, no. 2170)
On the authority of Abdullah bin Omar (ra). Once the Sahabah were seated with the Prophet (saw) and he (saw) began to relate to them some of the
fitan (trials and tribulations) the Ummah will face. Then he (saw) said, “Then will come to you the fitna of the Duhayma, it will not leave any one of you from this Ummah except that it will reach them all, and when they say that the fitna has ended, it will increase, at that time a man will awake as a Muslim but will go to sleep as a Kaafir until all the people will become divided into two (clear) camps; the camp of Imaan, wherein there is no hypocrisy and the camp of hypocrisy, wherein there is no Imaan (belief). When this occurs, await the Dajaal (antichrist) on that day or shortly afterwards.” (Sunan Abu Dawood, Vol. 2 Pg. 496, Hadith no. 4242)
“Do people think that they will be left alone just because they say - “We believe” and will not be tested? And we indeed tested those who were before them. And Allah will certainly make it known those who are true and will certainly make it known those who are the liars” (29:2-3)
January 31, 2007 at 9:08 pm
Sister Myopic:
Although I was not married to a “daee” I know how you feel. It is really sad the horror that sisters have been put through in the name of “salafiyyah”, yet we are told to ignore all these problems and continue to endure and suffer for no reason. There is a word for it: A CULT. We have to resolve that because we are Muslims we don’t have to put ourselves through self-inflicted crap. More and more Muslims are waking up to that.
I never wore Niqaab but I always wore very loose fitting jilbaabs (black, gray, and any other drab color you can imagine) and huge hijaabs but I no longer dress like that anymore either. Honestly, it was for show more than anything else. I didn’t want to stick out like a sore thumb so I dressed the way everyone else did for fear that I would be ostracized. I think that many of us, brothers included, didn’t want to feel like an outcast so we just did what everyone else did.
I remember buying my Ex expensive cologne once but he never used it because he’d rather wear Indian Musk that he bought for $4 out of Khaleel’s car (fictitious name). I mean what was the harm in wearing cologne? Were you more pious if you wore musk rather than cologne? I look back at silly things like that and shake my head, I mean where is common sense in all of this?
Now that I am divorced, my parents and I talk more freely about my relationship and several times my dad made comments that I was brainwashed when I was with my Ex. At first it would piss me off when he would make comments like that because it made it seem like I was a mindless child and I couldn’t think for myself. However, in light of all that I’ve heard through Brother Umar’s beautifully written piece, my dad was right, in a way I was brainwashed and so were so many others.
Alhamdulillah, my family members are Muslim so I never broke ties with them and I am so thankful for their support because when I was down and out, who was there for me to help pick up the shattered pieces of my life? My family! As Brother Umar stated, so many “Salafis” chose to isolate themselves from their kaafir family members and in the end they had no one to run back when they needed help.
I pray that many of the brothers and sisters who read this Series can take something positive away from all of this. I know that things are tough and there are a lot of regrets but be thankful to Allah (swt) that you aren’t one of the ones who left this beautiful deen.
January 31, 2007 at 9:40 pm
Assalamu alaikum
I wrote a response here:
http://jinnzaman.blogspot.com/2007/01/rise-and-fall-of-salafi-dawah.html
masalama
January 31, 2007 at 9:43 pm
You know I have tears in my eyes from reading the last few comments. I just want to say how proud I am of so many sisters who stay in this deen despite the hardships they have endured. May Allah protect you and your families and make things easy for you.
January 31, 2007 at 9:57 pm
I can’t relate to much of what you wrote about Umar Lee, but I feel very sadenned especially the brotherhood that was lost due to the salafi divisions.
I have also learned a great deal about the inner salafi movements in the US that the non-salafis or the Muslims outside of the salafi dawah don’t know about.
I disagree that the salafi dawah has declined, but maybe to a convert’s eyes it is. Many converts are turning away from the salafi dawah, but many Muslims who were born Muslims are increasingly turning to AlMaghrib Institute and events like the Texas Dawah Convention.
AlMaghrib is probably the biggest and largest salafi organization in North America. There is no doubt that all the AlMaghrib scholars are salafi, whether or not they follow a madhab in fiqh, they still are. There is nothing wrong in that, but for them to “run” away from the salafi label is like hiding from what they are really.
I like to say that AlMaghrib are the moderate and cool salafis. MashaAllah! I have love for them, but disagree with them.
JazakAllah khair for your very insightful posts.
Ma’salama
January 31, 2007 at 10:09 pm
Salam alaikum:
SubhanAllah!! My husband asked me to read these posts. The title was a ‘turn off’. I thought it would be another salafi-bashing post. So I told him, ‘not interested’. But he insisted that I do, so I did. And I must say, it really was sad but I also must admit, that I kept thanking Allah az-Zawjal for keeping me (us) in a place safe from the ‘fitnah’ yet in a ’salafee’ envoirenment…houston!
I too was introduced to this salafee dawah by my MSA…mainly br Sh. Yasir Qadhi. We used to invite speakers like Dawud Adeed, Jamal Zarabozo, Ali Timimi (may Allah free him and protect him) etc. And at that time I used to wish that I was also living in NJ!
I found out about QSS and IANA split in 96 or 97 (I think). I still remember the day when I read the letter online of/from (I can’t even remember now) of br. bassam, and I cried and spent the whole week extremely depressed. I couldn’t understnad what was happening. How can salafees be not united!!
But that was the time when our community was blessed with Sh. Waleed Basyouni (although we didn’t value him as much in the begining–to be honest *I* didn’t value him until I moved from Houston recently and found out about all these problems that happen else where but not Houston walhamdullialh). So Sh. Waleed, and Allah has blessed him with wisdom, distracted us from all these fitnahs and concentrated on teaching us deen, which was more important.
’salafee movement’, I disagree with the term. However, I understand that it maybe ‘introduced’ to other differently. I never conceived of it as a ‘movement’ rather a methodology…methodology of salaf. So anyways, where I come from ’salafee da’wah’ has not declined a bit walhamdullialh, rather prospered. The term ’sunnah’ is not alien to people anymore in Houston. Although, the ‘major’ islamic center is still non-salafee.
I have a lot to say. InshaAllah I will post it in a later post. I do have 3 children to take care of/homeschool (salafee way of raising kids huh!! :) ) so I do have limited access to net!
January 31, 2007 at 10:13 pm
Aslaamulaykum brother
Great article articulated very well.
Just wandering if you can put the whole 10 pages to be downloaded and printed if that is possiable.
Jazzkallah Khayre
Waslaam
January 31, 2007 at 10:17 pm
Umm Reem:
All of that sounds wonderful, but - as I discussed above and as Amad admitted - how many of those salafees in Houston are American converts? Futher, Houston is just one city in the US. I must admit that it upsets me when it keeps being mentioned that so much is being done in Houston, but converts are being left out. Amad mentioned that most of them are with WD Muhammad’s movement. Anyone ever bothered to ask WHY THAT IS???
January 31, 2007 at 10:27 pm
Umar, there are a lot of American Converts Salafis in Houston, particularly Latino . Actually when I went to TDC last year I saw alot of converts. They do tend to be more middle class and fit in more with the second generation immigrants. Although I do think there is a need to address the converts that are coming from a more disadvantaged background.
The ones who are stuck out in Houston are those who don’t follow the Salafi Dawah. It is tough to try and find a class or a teacher to go to that is not in Urdu, which is why the first time I saw your post I was like, the Salafi dawah has declined cause it doesn’t look like that around here.
January 31, 2007 at 10:32 pm
Most are not with WD, most are wanderers.
I say the main reason is that Houston is too darn big and Blacks are spread out around the city. And class issues. When you go to the masjids, most people do not speak to you and people tend to hang out with their ethnic group and class.
But masha Allah that is changing, there are so many intermarriages here and young adults who are making an effort to bring different communities together. And amongst the Salafis, I would say here they are very diverse,.
January 31, 2007 at 10:39 pm
OK, I should have made this 0ne comment. The one issue where you are correct which is so annoying is that Houston masjids almost never puts an indigenous Muslim in a Leadership position. Now it could be that there are not many scholars here but I think the masjids should make an effort to bring scholars from other cities, because Masha Allah there are many knowledgeable AA Muslims in the US. I know that people complain that they never see an American giving the Khutbah or in leadership, but also that is on us (well I’m not a convert but Indigenous Muslims) who need be more proactive in building their own masjids or being active in Masjids and studying the deen basically creating the change they want to see.
January 31, 2007 at 10:49 pm
subhanallaah, started to practise the deen in this era, how it affected us, and is still tearing us apart subhanallaah!
January 31, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Um Abdullah:
Everyone I talk to about TDC says that the amount of converts is very sparse - and certainly not like it used to be in the old days when there were over 1000 at sizeable conferences. Those that you are talking about are likely those that have decided to “pass” into the immigrant community. It is much easier for Latino converts to “pass”. How many African Americans did you see there? Were they actually salafi or were they just kinda there like yourself?
I was going on Amad’s information when he said that most of the blacks are in the WD community
Nonetheless, Houston is still one city
January 31, 2007 at 11:17 pm
Most of my friends are converts & Arabs (one thing my husband still doesn’t understand about me…why I can’t along with pakistanees! :) ), but then again my friends are not all the converts of Houston.
Sister Henaa Gamal has a program for convert sisters and in fact, even I was supposed to be a part of that group but couldn’t, which brings me to my point–distances in Houston. It was too far.
Daughters of Adam (all sisters) had converts involved in writing, organizing and attending conferences. I can only speak of the sisters.
January 31, 2007 at 11:22 pm
Allahu Akbaar!
Great JOB Brother Umar.
“Yet if they just want to rule over and control the servants of Allaah or want to run the affairs of the issues of the people, then akhee why don’t you just get yourself a flock of goats or sheep and then you can direct these sheep to wherever you want to direct them to! But as for the people they don’t have to check with you if they have another opinion! Some people just desire to control the affairs of people!” This has its place in the end.
Well brother Umar, may Allah have mercy upon us all. This is my first and most likely last time writing into a blog. Allah knows best. At any rate I am one of those old-school brothers from the Dawah. Un-like some, I was blessed by Allah to be around since 1990. And as such, I have endured attacks from not only “new-type salafees” but even the old and by one of our well known American born duats due to my connection to another American born duat, and his supposed stance as it relates to a persoanlity named “Abul Hassan”.
Yep, Daud Adib told brothers in KC that I was Khawaariji due to my being in the same community with Abu Usamah. And this was connected “only” to the Abul-Hassan testing among the “Salafees” after the Abu Bakr as-Sadiqq educational seminar 2002.
What is funny, is I considered Daud to be a friend and brother. We even tried to do some business in the 90s’ when he was selling vitamin sprays and I was involved in halal certification. I even called him prior to my moving to the community with Abu Usamah to ask his opinion. Abu Usamah was with me when I made the call (they talked) and all was good at that time. He advised me to go and help Abu Usamah and then months later talked about Abu Usamah and myself like we were Kufaar. This was 2001-2003. Now lets be clear that when I made this call I was known to be salafee, and had been since 1990.
Eleven years later (after I had taught many classes and given many many Khutbahs (across the US) from what I had learned from Shaikh Ali Sulaiman Ali, Abdul-Hakeem Quick, Bilal Phillips, Abdul-Hafeeth, Umar Abdur-Rahman, Abdullah Choudry, Muhammad Nur and others (all early graduates from Madeenah in the 70’s and 80’s), the fitnah arises its ugly head and the salafiyyah of myself and others gets called into question based on a man I/we have never met.
I never did nor will I today (to please any ‘Amr, Bakr or Zaid) make the Tabdee of Abul-Hassan or my beloved brother Abu Muslimah, or any other brother due to those Mis-applied bogus principles that were being taught and spread amongst the Salafees by the Salafees.
Ask a general question…Shaikh, what do you say and what is the condition of a man who says or does x-y-z……The Shaikh answers this general question then the “evil” brothers write and say….Shaikh so-and-so said Abu Usamah is …….!blah blah blah. That is so evil and wrong, but it happened on a continual basis. That my brother is a pure CIA move. If any one knows that it is me. Bait and Switch. Did Abu Muslimah and Abu Usamah or Bilal also have (WMD’s) weapons of mass destruction?
They said,”So and So” can smell a Hizbee a thousand miles away…..etc. Well, I must tell you that that ability did not take affect until we (the Salafees) were harmed and divided by the likes of Shaikh Falih who (according to Troid and their blind following crew of “internet (lazy to read a real book) hizbeeyoon” ) was from the Major Scholars. Now that is/was a joke.
But this DRAMA destroyed families, communities etc.
As an Army ex-intelligence officer I saw the BLUE/RED political spin that was used by the Translators at TROID and Salafee Publications etc., to confuse and cloud the minds of the people with garbage and lies.
Write about Abu Usamah or Abu Muslimah with a title that suggest that Ibn Taimiyyah as well as other Scholars from the past spoke about them in a bad way, knowing full well that the majority of the people did not have the slightest idea who these people where nor when they lived. It was all a scam.
Now since these groups are getting smashed out by the REAL Major Scholars about the harm they caused, know that your clarification is needed.
Know that you need to be as vocal as you were, when you were eating our Flesh.
Where are the emails with the apologies from Daud Adib, Musa Richardson,MAAZ QURAISHI/Troid (old crew and new), Abu Khadeejah(Salafee Publications (old crew and new), oh yes Abdul- Munim and QSS, after you drug Muhammad al-Jibaly down into your abyss then you were killed by your own games. After you ate the flesh of IANA, you were eaten also.
All of you. Write, type and show the people that you were wrong and Hizbee so that the healing can began.
Give back to Abu Muslimah, Abu Usamah at-Thahabee, Abu Aminah Bilal Phillips, Jamaal Zarobozo, Muhammad Jibaly etc their rights.
See that back door stuff that some of them have done admitting in private that they were wrong or played (into being ghuloo) in one email to this one or to that one is without making it known that you have caused many people harm. Some harm is irrepairable. Families destroyed, jobs lost, Masjids and other Islamic organizations destroyed.
Why just as Waseullah Abbass said in the lecture he gave in the Sept. 2006 E-book by: http://salafimanhaj.com/pdf/SalafiManhaj_OnAbooUsaamah.pdf
“There are also some issues which do not necessitate splitting and division between themselves and the Jamee’yah. They describe the Jamee’yah with ‘Hizbiyyah’ yet they are the ones who left them and became hizbee and indeed they are (real) Hizbees! I debated the man who is called ‘Aboo Khadeejah’ regarding his opposition to the Jamee’yah in every small and big thing whether it was right or false, and he did not come with anything convincing, so I advise him and all of the brothers to leave off blocking off the way of their brothers and to take what they have been advised about if they truly want the Countenance of Allaah. Yet if they just want to rule over and control the servants of Allaah or want to run the affairs of the issues of the people, then akhee why don’t you just get yourself a flock of goats or sheep and then you can direct these sheep to wherever you want to direct them to! But as for the people they don’t have to check with you if they have another opinion! Some people just desire to control the affairs of people!
Finally, I say to not enter into the likes of these issues which is poison to the Jama’ah, the Jama’ah of the Salafees. We do not see a Qadiyani talking about another Qadiyani, or one who has the ‘aqeedah of the ‘Asharees or the likes speaking against an ‘Ash’aree, we never see this! For this reason, take the lectures of the scholars and benefit from them. I give salaam to you and bid farewell to you and I hope that you spread my speech here fully without omitting anything via the (well-known) means of distribution,
Wa salaamu alaykum wa Rahmatullaah wa Barakatuhu! ”
There is more I could say but this is enough.
Was-Salaamu alaykum
AbandonedSalafee
February 1, 2007 at 12:10 am
Akhee Umar,
Sisters were DIVORCED because they had the wrong position on Abul Hasan Al Maribee. A person 99.999999% of the people did not even know! Subhanullah, one such sister was PREGNANT and was divorced over this!!!!
There were two sisters that were lifelong friends that broke up and became enemies over this issue
Children were ordered to stop playing with other peoples’ kids.
I can give you story after story of the lives that were destroyed over the fitnah. I wish the people would stop whitewashing it and pretending that this is not the case.
February 1, 2007 at 12:13 am
Masha Allah, very well written posts. I appreciate the effort and energy this must have taken you.
It is a big lesson to all of us that such fitna could have occurred from such minor details.
February 1, 2007 at 12:32 am
Assalamu Alaykum
Abandoned..you know I read what you wrote and said to myself..here we go again.
Ahkee I can NOT hardly respect any of those duaat simply because the majority of them are hardly pillars of good character and upstanding husbands and fathers(and no you do NOT get to count current wifelets who are oblivious to the 360 knowledge of their men)
To me the dawa was corrupted by the self-glorification, yearning for recognition and systematic ego tripping that the majority of the Duaats in the US and UK have fallen victim to. In my opinion this dawa can NEVER be where it was in this era simply because the real issues will never be addressed either because of that fear of being seen as a backbiter or from the concept of hiding a muslims wrongs.
Both sides confused the lay muslims with the minhaj wars and the result? Abu Tasneems in Egypt(again)? Right, Abu Usamah’s in some indo-pak masjid in Birmingham having to you-tube defend himself because of some expose program, Abu Muslimah’s in E.O but what a sad decaying place E.O remains…and we can go on!
Until the salafees realise that there is a need for some internal cleansing..when they right the clear wrongs and oppressions that they have visited on wives, ex-wives, children, brothers…in fact all and any of the ones that they have wronged then there will never be any success.
What happened to the dawa? We happened to the dawa but on the bright side ALlah will always keep the message clear for those who wish to know now and in the future.
Umm Adam–I will definetly stop by your blog ..I know my story is similar but actually my story is a little more crazier than most(hehe)..you’ll see insha Allah
Wsalaam
February 1, 2007 at 12:39 am
salam… I know somewhat about AA brothers, its because I dealt with them. I used to give khutbas at the Texas City Masjid… a small little rundown place with nearly all of the 15 folks AA converts. Eventually, the WD movement came around town (started happening around the time I was leaving and was “completed” after I left), and they convinced the brothers there that they needed to return to “their own”…
Trust me, the WD movement is very strong in Houston among AA Muslims. So, here’s more about Houston and AA Muslims:
-We never had a Abu Muslimah or Abu Usamah or Siraj Wahhaj or a even a Dawud Adib there. Regardless of the negative effects that your story chronicles, many people came to Islam, not just the dawah, but due to being affected by these people. So, there aren’t that many AA Muslims at all there.
-Houston’s expansiveness does have a role to play.
-But that doesn’t explain it all… there is not one masjid that is majority-AA that isn’t WD. Most of it revolves around one very good, motivational AA speaker, Br. Wazir, who is the only real AA player on the scene.
About TDC:
-By far the biggest reason there aren’t that many AA converts in the crowd, because there aren’t that many in Houston.
-Most of the AA Muslims in the entire USA are either WD or Super-Salafis… neither would attend TDC.
-One of the main organizers is in fact an AA Muslim– middle class. He moved from Philly to escape the super-salafis.
As I said before, if you have some ideas to change the converts-picture for TDC, I am sure we’ll be all ears.
Finally, I would urge you, Akhi Umar, to consider the consequences of the title of your series. I have mentioned this before, but I can’t emphasize it enough. Consider how it can be used, and how it is already being used by those who won’t hide their glee in seeing more than just a split, rather a complete demise.
wasalam
February 1, 2007 at 12:44 am
Jinnzaman, since I have been part of the dawah since mid-90s, I can tell you that this was more of an internal conflict that anything else. I don’t remember a single time when the “traditionalists” caused a division/split in the ranks of the salafis.
As far as the WWW, I do agree that “traditionalists” have gained a much better footing on the internet now. And I blame more of that on the internal implosion, esp. in losing the Spubs site (which was the most prominent before) to the super-salafis than any super effort on the part of the traditionalists. Again, there is no doubt, that the traditionalists did wake up to the internet reality, but let’s just say, the internal breakup did nothing but help the cause of everyone else.
February 1, 2007 at 12:48 am
Charles, anything to do with Frontpage is propaganda, that needs to be immediately trashed.
February 1, 2007 at 12:49 am
Although I am not yet a Muslim, I have been doing much research and pray that someday soon that God will guide me to reversion. This is one of the sites that I read regularly and I enjoy the posts. This particular series of articles was of interest to me as this sort of thing is what pushed me out of Christianity two years ago. I was part of a denomination that was imploding from within and although it claimed to be “of one body” was in reality a slintered menage of varying beliefs and creeds. I was to the point of entering one of the denomination’s seminaries, but the division and hypocrisy made me ill and drove me away. My point is that this sort of thing is commonplace in Christianity and I never thought of Islam as having divisions like this. I guess I have a lot more to learn.
In regards to the discussion regarding organizations that cater to converts: where are they?
February 1, 2007 at 1:01 am
Steve:
The saddest part of this splitting was that it was over such minute issues. This was mostly political and personal and probably too complicated for a non-Muslim to understand. Simply put, we still all agree on the basics of Islam and there are none of us claiming that God is one in three or any such thing.
We are human beings too and have a lot of problems. We are susceptible to the same issues as everyone else. Had we stayed away from these issues, I believe that the dawah would still be alive and well all over the country
I’d advise you to keep studying and I am sure you will be convinced
For convert information please visit: http://www.islamyesterday.com
He will answer your concerns in a good way, Insha Allah
February 1, 2007 at 1:06 am
Steve, I am glad that you are thinking about your purpose of being in this world. I am glad that you are thinking intelligently about Islam despite all the bombardments of anti-Islam propaganda.
I have always maintained, that non-Muslims who think for themselves and ponder over their reality, need to look at Islam, and not at Muslims. Because unfortunately Muslims usually don’t form the best of examples to learn about what Islam really preaches. So, go to the basics. Learn about Aqeedah (creed), about pure Tawheed (monotheism)… and you will find that Islam is the ONLY religion in the hundreds of religions, sects, cults that has a clear definition of the Creator and the created– completely separate. It is the only religion where the Creator is not given attributes of the creation, and the creation is not given attributes of the Divine Creator.
I would urge you to run to Allah as soon as you can, because our lives are completely out of our hand, and we can return to Allah at any time. So, don’t let your hesitations delay you for too long.
If I can be of any help to you, you can contact me (my email is on my blogger profile— if you can’t find it, post a msg here).
May Allah help you in your efforts.
February 1, 2007 at 1:12 am
Br. Amad,
Yes the only Masjids run by AA are in WD community, well I think that Muhamad Shareefs jamaat has a masjid, I’m not sure.
But I still say most AA here are not affiliated with anyone and just float. When you go to the Eid prayer at Reliant you see so many AA Muslims that you never see at the masjids.
Even those that go to the WD Muhammad masjid might not necessarily agree with their minhaj but its because they are made to feel welcome and people actually talk to you for the most part and understand your culture as opposed to almost every other Masjid in Houston.
But there has been a lot of in fighting there so again those that left are left to float.
February 1, 2007 at 1:15 am
Even those that go to the WD Muhammad masjid might not necessarily agree with their minhaj but its because they are made to feel welcome and people actually talk to you for the most part and understand your culture as opposed to almost every other Masjid in Houston.
THAT is exactly the point I was getting at Um Abdull