No problems here!
13 02 2007
Denial (dĭ-nī’əl) is a defense mechanism in which a person is faced with a fact that is too painful to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence
Some brothers have disparaged my rise and fall series as “exaggeration”, that I am unqualified to speak on this topic (my own experiences?? are THEY more qualified to speak on MY experiences?? Should I ask for a fax from overseas, from someone who has never lived in the US to explain MY experiences to me??) and even one implied that I was lying (the only lie is with those who know these things but prefer to keep it undercover in order to keep this dysfunctional culture alive) This is part of the culture of denial that has taken root in the Muslim community.
These people are trying to tell me that I have not seen what I have seen with my own eyes! They are trying to tell me that I have not seen people that I know personally whose lives have been destroyed. They are trying to tell me to fall into their groupthink and thought reform and toe the line and tell me that things are still pristine and that all these social problems that I have seen with my own eyes are a figment of my imagination.
They want to tell you that the sisters pawned off to lunatics, the drug addictions, the criminality, the boycotting and all of that was all a figment of my overactive imagination. “No problems here!” “He is only imagining that we have problems!”
You get that?? I am only imagining that the brothers that get married 10 plus times exist and want to keep this culture in tact to take advantage of it. I am supposed to know that a “daiee” that gets married and divorced 20 times is a natural thing.
Instead of addressing problems, we have to shoot the messenger or trivialize them as not being from the “duaat”. I’m supposed to be a bobbleheaded “yes man” devoid of personality. The way to take care of a person pointing out problems is public personality execution so that other dissenters will not speak up.
No one is taking pleasure in pointing out problems, but to deny them is damaging! Extremely damaging. It creates an inverted universe where happiness = saddness … personality = groupthink … living in a bubble=real life
Anyone have any idea how frustrating it is for someone to tell you that what you have seen is NOT what you have seen?
I am a part of the team and want to help solve problems and destroy this culture of denial and pretentiousness that has formed in the Muslim community, but we can’t help dig ourselves out of this hole if we are going to continue to shoot the messenger, deny problems and insist on “staying the course”
as-Salâm ‘alaikum wa rahmatullah brother Umar,
Anyone have any idea how frustrating it is for someone to tell you that what you have seen is NOT what you have seen?
The way we perceive things isn’t always the reality of the situation. This is a fact. The brothers I personally know of who have criticized what you have written in your series aren’t criticizing your personal experiences or some of the specific things you mentioned of the immoral, un-Islamic behaviour; of the ruined marriages, families, and lives; of the heartbreak and crushed hopes and dreams experienced by some of us. What the majority of those who I know have/are criticizing is certain accounts directly pertaining to the da’wah, itself; such as certain apparent and assumed alliances, splits and divisions, and some of what you’ve mentioned regarding certain personalities and the issues pertaining to them.
Two of the brothers in particular, whose recent emails have probably prompted you to write this entry, were directly involved in the da’wah, were privy to certain things that common brothers like you and I were/are not privy to, and knew some of the personalities you mentioned quite intimately, much more than some of us. They also possess more Islamic knowledge than many of us here in the West and as such, would be better judges with respect to the “correctness” of some of the beliefs and methodologies of certain individuals than some of us.
As for the particular part of your post which I have quoted above, it is sufficed for me to mention the hadîth reported by Imam al-Bukhârî in his Sahîh from Abî Hurairah, radiyallahu ‘anhu, from the Prophet, sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam, who said, «’Îsâ ibn Maryam saw a man stealing, so he said to him, “Did you steal?” He said, “No, by Allah, who there is no god except Him!” So ‘Îsâ said, “I believe in Allah, and my eye lied.» (http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=0&Rec=5308)
If this is the case with ‘Îsâ, ‘alaihi as-salâm–a Prophet of Allah’s–then how much more so would it be for us?
Different witnesses will ’see’ and ‘report’ different things regarding the same incident.
You’d think it obvious to all that what you narrated was a reportage of what you have seen and experienced; as for elements of a recostruction based on that, so there may be some scope for denial/disagreement of fact-based issues.
But how strange, I agree, when the denial is *clearly* that the protestor is ‘in denial’.. or worse denying you *your* experiences .. how crazy is that.
Another thing I noticed about people who would rather ’sweep this under the carpet’ are those who think ‘airing dirty laundry in public’ is to be avoided at all costs..
..specifically they get their ‘knickers in a twist’ over the Sufi’s seeing all this and revelling in it. (if so, please realise that you have a problem with your prides making you grit your teeth, if you cant take their frankly pathetic self-congratulation.. NOT a concern for the dawah, in my opinion and wallahu alim)
Umm.. its like, oh so its better to let the problem fester instead.. lest the soooofies throw their chests out and strut?
LET THEM high5 themselves, who cares about them.
If theyre stupid enough to think this means some sort of ‘victory’ or superiority of their dawa… rather that what it is, us **RECOVERING** from the extreme elements in our dawa that we trusted.. then that is fine by me. Because what you Umar have done is help ‘lance the boil’ thereby it is better for us and purifying inshallah, and worse for them and their false claims toward humility and gentleness.
ok, now enough of my metaphors and similies!
wa salam
Assalamualaikum,
I understand how frustrating it can get when people try to sweep important issues under the carpet and literally turn a blind eye on problems that might fester into something ugly if they are not dealt with immediately. we must all understand that this is not a mud-slinging match but an attempt to understand the source of such righteous disregard. Indeed, to Allah SWT is our return.
Fisabilillah.
I think the proof is in the current situation. If things were not as bad as Umar has stated, then certainly the state of Salafi Da’wah would have been moving ever upward since the 1990s eh?
I think the current situation speaks to the truth of Brother Umar’s statements.
As to this comment above “Two of the brothers in particular, whose recent emails have probably prompted you to write this entry, were directly involved in the da’wah, were privy to certain things that common brothers like you and I were/are not privy to”
It is that exact type of crap that allows people to get away with the stuff that they do.
The idea that anyone is above anyone else, or one brother is “common” and another is not is EXACTLY why the Muslim community is in the state it is.
As salaam alaikum bro Umar,
I wasn’t a part of the salafi movement but a part of the salafi dawah, yes. As an observer (Durham, NC, late ’90’s), I saw a vibrant community torn apart by the over zealous brothers you’ve described. The zealousness I could deal with. But when I saw that in order to be a part of “the group” I would have to suspend the thinking capability that Allah gave me, thanks but no thanks.
Been there, done that - twice (1970’s): Once with Elijah Muhammad and again with his son, WD. I recognized right away the group dynamics that were at play. When I made that analogy with some of the brothers of “the group”, I was roundly pounced upon with the claim that I was comparing the dawah of the NOI to the salafi dawah. Far be it. I was only comparing the similarities of group control and dynamics. Of course, I was boycotted by brothers I had known and befriended for years. Freedom of thought died and so did our associations. It was a sad day.
As a leader in the community during that time, it was especially hurtful to see all that you including many of them, had worked to build, was slowly being torn apart.
This is my first time ever publicly commenting on this situation. I knew whatever I said would/could probably be taken out context and every attempt made to discredit it. Nevertheless, the saddest aspects of it to witness were: 1) young brothers and sisters just following blindly not really knowing the issues or what was at stake. 2) brothers reneging on agreements they made with the community to try resolve the issues they said they had with the community. No one said, ‘we want to go back to the table’ or anything - just abandoned the process and ultimately, the community. The younger brothers and sisters, I could sort of understand. The “old heads” like me, should have known better.
as-Salâm ‘alaikum wa rahmatullah brother Abu Sinan,
“As to this comment above “Two of the brothers in particular, whose recent emails have probably prompted you to write this entry, were directly involved in the da’wah, were privy to certain things that common brothers like you and I were/are not privy to”
It is that exact type of crap that allows people to get away with the stuff that they do.
The idea that anyone is above anyone else, or one brother is “common” and another is not is EXACTLY why the Muslim community is in the state it is.”
My statement had nothing to do with anyone being above anyone else, so please don’t misconstrue it as such. The statement which you quoted from me has to do with people being privy to certain information and events that would have an affect on the way something is perceived, and thus the conclusions that are drawn from it.
Rasheed, what Umar said in his series rang true for so many people - how can you say that its simply down to difference in perception? And i’m not talking about the social problems, i’m talking about the splits between organisations & masajid.
And just to bring some context to what you’re saying, those brothers who you mention who “were directly involved in the da’wah” (or at least one of them) were right there at the beginning joining hands with SP warning against this person and that person. It wouldn’t be a gross exaggeration to say that the early work of these brothers helped create TROID, and how damning is that?
Brother Omar,
Your experience is just that; your experience. I would not minimize it nor would I use it as evidence that the Salafee dawa is finished in America or anywhere else for that matter. Peoples lives, relationships, homes, etc., beging “ruined” as you say over these events have likely been influenced by things along with the events you depict. Your points about peoples ‘baggage’ from their past before Islam coming with them into Islam is quite valid and unfortunately for some, not dealth with, but this is part of the human condition. Thus, some of the ‘carnage’ you alluded too likely had other variables involved, such as “denial”, which is an unconscious defensive coping mechanism that prevents one from seeing the reality of certain behaviors, ideas, etc.
Beyond that, I have been thinking in depth about your posts beyond what I wrote yesterday just after reading through your writings. The “star” and cult like figures you alluded too are now those deviants who appear regularly on MBC television, appear as “head liners” in the crowded, yet still “empty” annual conferences in america, who maintain clean shaven faces and call to other than what Allaah and His Messenger call too, and most unfortunate is that some of our brothers who once espoused salafee views have chosen to follow such well known personalities, but, as I said yesterday, I believe some of that has to do with the problem of going extreme. Generally, it is difficult to maintain any extreme position for long and often one swings to another extreme position, frequently the opposite. This is not based on research but clinical experience. If one is truly grounded in His/her Deen they will, Insha Allaah regain a steady state through repentence, dua, self assessment, etc. Many have gone through the things you mentioned and have not become the ruined soles you speak about.
What disturbs me about your writings is that many Muslims who ascribe to other than the way of Ahle Sunnah wa Ja’maah are likely gloating over this information as if is the daleel proving salafeeya is nothing more than another madhab and is now finished in America. These are the Muslims who join various groups and ’stars’ and are of what I call the “I’m OK, your OK” crew, accepting each other no matter what. In the end, however, the Deen is crystal clear and there is no confusion, what-so-ever, of what a Muslim is to be upon. And may Allaah guide all of us the path of righteousness.
abooismail
as salaam alakium, brother umar those who are in a state of denial,are like the bird who buries its head in the sand. there is nothing that you have articulated out of context,i have live through that terrible peroid in which those who claimed that they were on the minhaj of the salaf as salah,i witness its fall into another hizb,a cult! as i attempted to go against the flow as i person in leadership i was villified,boycotted threaten with death. i trust that ALLAH will bless and protect you for speaking straight to the point,i pray that those who critic your frankness and are in denial come out of denial.
Br. anothersalafi…
jazakallahu khayran…
your comment was right on… this series may have been sad (i certainly found it a depressing read) but as you alluded, acknowledging the problems that br. umar highlighted is an important step to recovery.
i think everyone can see that it has resonated with many different people who were at sometime involved in the salafi “scene” … and in different ways… this collective acknowledgement is a critical step to fixing these problems that have been ignored for too long…
brothers i know who wouldnt know a blog from a frog have been coming online just to read this series after hearing the buzz.
for many, it has been a release and in sha Allah the beginning of a successful healing process
and not to forget, Br. Umar
Jazakallahu khayran for doing saying what needed to be said…
and in such an excellent manner
Salam
Brother Umar Lee you have issues akh. You are hard on the brothers who are following the Sunna. What you may not realize is that the reason for so many divorces is the fact that these sisters do not want to follow the Deen and this is most true of the African-American sisters. When they wanna be chickenheads we leave them and that is what a man with eeman should do. We are setting an example for our seeds to follow. Women are the worst in the deen, that is a fact.
You also seem to yearn for unity amongst Muslims and that is a false desire. The goal is correctness, not unifying with deviants and ignorant people.
Ali Ibn Sherman Ferguson:
Women are worst in the deen. that is a fact?
I suppose you are alluding to the hadith in which the Prophet saw adviced the woman to give much charity due to two main faults of theirs.
But to take this and be arrogant about it and ‘harsh’ and think this is the ‘SUNNAH’….brother i wouldnt be surprised if brothers like you were part of the problem..not the solution.
I suppose you would have some sort of excuse also for these ‘brothers’ who left behind a trail of kids never to check up on ‘em or support them?
i sincerely hope that you are being sarcastic, brother…
WOOH!!
women are worst in the deen and that is a fact??!!!
May I ask you where you get this from?!! Please don’t quote me the hadeeth of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wasalam) in reply. Because if you do, then with all due respect, you are wrong. ‘Naaqis’ doesn’t mean worst…
wAllahu ta’ala ‘alam.
“the sisters don’t want to follow the deen…”
I can say for assurety, if a husband TEACHES his wife, invests his money in her islamic education, by Allah’s guidance, she would want to follow the deen.
burgundy, the reasn the brothers leave the children is because of the system. Many of these women leave the house before idda is up and they are in disobedience so the man doesnt have to take care of them. You people are ignorant because many of the salaf married and divorced alot, plus the ulamaa have said that marriage with intent to divorce is halal as long as the five conditions are met PERIOD. You people are westernised as marriage is for sexual enjoyment and you are trying to use this issue of frequent marriage as a weapon against the salafis.
There will always remain salafis that are clear on the truth and they will continue to expose the deviants and people of desires
Assalamu alaikum, you can marry with the intent to divorce? Huh? Then wouldn’t that be like– a temporary marriage? And I thought that was haram. I was taught that when you get married, your intention should be to *stay married*, and *then* if something happens and the two of you *can’t* live togehter, then *as a last resort*, divorce is an option. I thought that divorce was the most hated thing in the sight of Allah?!
Goodness, if I’m *deviant* or *ignorant* or *not following the Sunnah* on this matter, then maybe I should go ahve a talk with my husband (I’m being sarcastic here). How utterly awful!? I wasn’t aware that the Sahaba married and divorced multiple times and even if I was, I’d want to knwo the context behind that. Just because the sahaba did something, doesn’t mean you go and do it, especially if you *don’t* know the context of their actions!
And the odds of getting ten women (assuming you married ten times), that “don’t want ot follow the deen”, etc., just seems statistically rare to me!
There is just so much wrong with this comment that I could just keep writing, but I’m tired! Marriage isn’t only for sexual enjoyment! What about the verses in teh Qur’an? Don’t they mean anything? What about spouses living in tranquility? Being a “garment for one another”, did you forget that? Subhanallah! I’m really trying not to get angry, but I found this man’s comments down-right offensive as a woman! Perhaps there are many sisters who are *not* practicing the deen, but there sure are a lot of brothers in that same boat as well! And you have the nerve to talk about following the Sunnah, as a way of justifying your commetns! I think this is just exactly what Umar Lee *and others* have been talking about! At least I can thank you for giving us a stark reminder / example of at least *some* of what is wrong with our community today! I ask Allah to protect the good, righteous, practicing sisters from the so-called brothers who will exploit them and then call it the Sunnah later!
Wow, Ali, with spokesmen like you, it’s a wonder that the dawah didn’t take America by storm…
So your namesake from the Sahaba just married Sayyida Fatima (as) for sexual ejoyment huh? He could have just thrown her aside like a cum rag at any point and that would have been a-ok?
(to continue) The prophet (saws) told us that marriage is half the din. He did not say, in any ahadith I am familiar with “Hit it and quit it”.
Is it any surprise that some of the most self-righteous are also the most ignorant and least educated in their deen?
Asalaamu alaikum
Please brothers and sisters do not get into it with brother Ali because he is either joking or has some serious issues that he has to come to terms with. To argue with a person like this will just degenerate this topic like others that have come before it.
Allah knows best
This very list of comments proves brother Umar’s posts were right.
If some of these people are representitive of what Umar talked about, I am surprised things didnt break down further and faster than they did.
I have never actually seen someone defend their practice of marrying and divorcing dozens of women until now. I have never seen someone defend the idea of having children and then refusing to take care of them until now. The Prophet, himself, was an orphan, and these “people”(I dont even want to give them that, but what other term can I use without cursing?) would make their own sons and daughters effectively into orphans! HARAAAAM!
Like I have said, many of these people trade in their old street habits for “halal” justification, and off they go. No longer are they “ghetto superstars”, they are now “on the haqq”. Maybe they should be called “Halal Superstars” instead?
The idea that one can have children and then refuse to take care of them is INSANE and one that every Muslim should denounce loud and clear.
Instead of operating their married life life their previous dating life, I think they should concentrate on education so at least they can communicate in a decent fashion. It is said in the deen that you should travel even to China for knowledge, in their case, maybe they can travel, learn, “hit and quit” some Chinese ladies “to spread the dawah” and then leave.
These people are sick and use twisted ideas of Islam to spread their sickness.
Ali Ibn Sherman…you are a pinhead. Or is that a “chickenhead”? In either case, it might be men like you who drive sisters away from the deen. And where do you get the idea that wishing for unity of the ummah is a “false desire”. Dont you remember Allah orders in the Quran, saying “Hold fast ALL of you to the rope of Allah and do not seperate?” I dont remember Allah qualifying that with asking you to determine who are “deviants and ignorant people”. Something tells me that if you were drowning and a deviant threw you a lifeline, you’d hold onto it. Hmmmmm.
As-salaamu ‘alaikum
Not everyone who has an opinion should speak it, and not everyone who speaks it should be listened to or have his opinion entertained.
One of the major problems in the West is that we attached ourselves to personalities but never clutched onto principles, personalities change and come and go, but the principles of the religion do not. Would any sane person abandon the principles of the religion every time the “personality” he attaches himself to changes, and would a sane person abandon the principles of the religion because of some “personal experiences” he had with this brother or that organisation?! This methodology is infallible; we as individuals are not, so let us try our best to stick to this methodology to the best of our ability and not let the ill-doings of others push us to the opposite end of the spectrum, because the other end is also extreme.
And what has been achieved as a result of all and sundry feeling the need to share their personal experiences and take on things? Nothing! We are in the same now as we were yesterday, and we were in the same state yesterday as we were before the infamous accounts started appearing on this blog!
Was-salaamu ‘alaikum…
The “rope of Allah” refers to the Qur’an and Sunnah and not a hodgepodge of different innovated methodologies. Others have said that the “rope of Allah” are the ulamaa. So we need to hold on to them to protect our deen so this is why we only take from the ulamaa and refer our affairs to them. When our ulamaa have spoken on a matter who are we as laymen to question these things? This is why you people trying to use the issue of frequent marriage amongst the salafiyoon are ignorant as these are the ones that connect themselves to the ulamaa.
You people should know that the ulamaa are the inheritors of the Prophets and they inherited from the Prophets knowledge and they protect and carry the knowledge in their chest and by it they guide the people to that which Allah and His Messenger commanded. So whosoever wage war against them and the people that attach themselves to them has indeed brought destruction upon themselves.
This is because speaking ill of the ‘Ulamaa and those that attach themselves to them and slandering them is not only speaking ill about them but also the religion itself and the Manhaj which they are upon.
It is from our blessed manhaj that we do not speak of the ulamaa except with goodness and beauty. It is from the Manhaj of the people of bid’ah to speak of the ulamaa in a bad way and distance themselves from those who connect themselves to them
Ginny, the main object of marriage is sex
Look at this statement:
Kifayat al-Hajjah, (the commentary on Sunan Ibn Majah) as-Sindi said:
“It is, when there is love between two, then that love will not be increased by anything among the various types of means of drawing nearer, nor will anything make it last, like the marriage tie. So if they are married with that love, then the love will increase and become stronger with every day.”
The ulamaa did not interpret “love” in the statement above in the Western “romantic” (a concept that started in EUROPE in the 18th century) sense. “Love” has been interpreted as “sexual desire”. So this thing of “romance” and “getting to know one another is something foreign to us. So “love” (i.e, sexual desire) is for those who are married. This is better for us if we only knew. It is when we adopted the Western concepts of “love” that we started having problems. We now expect to talk and “have fun” and other wastes of time with our wives when we should be practicing the Quran and Sunnah upon this blessed manhaj.
Good post siraatulmustaqim!! Safety is in following the ulamaa
I’m just praying you aren’t an African American man… If you are, I want to apologize that your mother, aunts, sisters, and cousins (doesn’t matter whether they’re Muslim or not) failed to show you a decent example of a REAL woman. I advise you to direct your misplaced anger to the appropriate people - your mother and father (unless your mother was a chickenhead and you dont’ know your daddy - then be angry with the bum for running away from his responsibility, something you seem to have inherited from him), not women, specifically African AMerican women.
With all due respect stop using the “system” as an excuse for not taking care of the children you created! A real man takes care of his children and responsibilities - stop being weak and MAN UP! Please tell me you aren’t one of those brothers who had four wives who were all on welfare (public assistance)!
Umar - Excellent work! As the youngins say, thanks for keeping it real!
“Of all things permitted by law” said the prophet “divorce is the most hateful in the sight of allah”
We shouldnt speak badly of the ulama brother Ali Sherman or follow them blindly. Those ulama are contradicting the sunnah. Can you tell us why a brother should go into a marriage with intent to divorce according to those ulamaa?
Mr. Ali…I would go back in forth with you trading pretentious barbs but I gotta bring the heat man…
It’s punk ass fools like you that have sisters running for their lives (and the lives of their children) to homeless shelters. It’s stupid ass niggas like you that are producing a generation of the dumbest and most -illprepared children in recent memory - Muslim or non-Muslim. And you defend it? You even praise it. Y’all read that? He’s praising being a deadbeat dad. He’s praising being a halal ho’. Then he attributes this to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions (may Allah be pleased with them all). Sisters if you see this fool coming…or anyone that even remotely sounds like this idiot…RUN for your friggin’ lives, the lives of your children, and the faith in your hearts. His barbaric and beduoin mentality is what forces a lot of our kids to view Islam as a religion of harshness, oppression and ignorance. With a daddy like Mr. Ali, it’s no wonder a lot of them leave Islam altogether. Look at the example they have. Mr. Ali, is your head buried in the desert sand that you love so much or just up your ass? either way it must be hard to breathe. Maybe that’s why you talk like you do - lack of oxygen. Sisters, be very careful of these playas.
assalamu alikeum
Incase anyone missed brother Isa’s post:
“Please brothers and sisters do not get into it with brother Ali because he is either joking or has some serious issues that he has to come to terms with. To argue with a person like this will just degenerate this topic like others that have come before it.”
wise words! Theres not point arguing with twats like Ali and Wahhabi cos they’re intentionally trying to rile people up. Best we just ignore them. Guys like them can talk big over the net but are cowards in the flesh.
Umar: *thumbs up* to your post.
I know Muslim_gal but my goodness. Other people, maybe even new Muslims or impressionable youth may read comments like his and fall into the same traps that many brothers and sisters are trying to pull themselves out of. I can no longer see this and not say something. Many of us were quiet and pretentiously polite for too long and allowed these trends to get out of hand and even become acceptable among us Muslims. If we are going to move way from this, we cannot allow this mentality to appear to be the norm…even righteous.
I know what you mean Rashid. I wanted to give that punk a piece of my mind (and my shoes prefably smacked across his fat mouth had it been possiable). I relaise theres proabably alot of invisable readers out here who dont comment but are looking this and thinking if what he’s saying has any basis and obviously us staying completly silent and not refuting it wouldnt be all that good. But on the other hand, should we contune to feed the troll? i stopped typing what i orginally wanted to say cos i realised he’s proabably some lone assshole who’s proabably laughing at the other side of the screen and for all we know, he may not even be who he says and might not even be muslim (not saying that a muslim cant come out with such fooliness cos plenty do but you never know these days over the net)
Anyhow, i say we ignore his stupidness but i definatly agree that we should not stay slient on the topics that Umar raised and the situtaiton of muslims at hand.
I attebnded a khutbah of Imam Siraj Wahahj in Brooklyn about a year ago when he talked about the blessing of being a stepfather but cannot find the audio. If anybody can find that audio for me I would like to put it on the site insha’Allah.
as-Salâm ‘alaikum wa rahmatullah sister Leila,
F.y.i., the hadîth you quoted related by Abū Dâwud in his Sunan has been declared weak by Shaikh al-Albânî in his Da’îf al-Jâmi’ as-Saghîr, and in his Silsilah al-Ahâdîth ad-Da’îfah (no. 4414) he declared it fabricated.
Mr Ali: Somehow I just cant type the word “brother”. Let me tell you the day in/day out REALITY of exactly what your fantasies translate into.
I was a teacher in an Islamic school heavily populated with children of salafis. In general, most of these children were late to school EVERY day. My guess based on observation is that while it’s fine to keep your wife barefoot and pregnant while the kids are too young to attend school, it’s another thing entirely to have a wife and mother who has a string of kids like stairsteps–still breastfeeding 1-3 of them, who cant manage to wake up on time to get the kids to school. Where is the father? Probably either sitting in the masjid since fajr, out somewhere making “dawah” (another word for vacation away from responsibility) or snoring his butt off in bed–at ONE of his WIVES houses.
The kids not only arrive late, but with faces unwashed, teeth not brushed, wearing either the same dirty clothes with the same stains as the day before, or for the boys a “jalabiyah” up to their knees–even in winter or a long jilbab previously used for Eid for the girls. Never mind neither was an option in the dress code of the school. It was the only thing he/she could find to put on. They invariably had no lunch at all, or some chips and soda the mother picked up on her way to school that morning. These children often were so hungry they begged–or stole–food from other’s lunches.
Naturally, the homework was either not done, which was usually the case, the papers returning the same way they left school the day before, or done incorrectly with an obvious lack of parental supervision. This was always an enigma to me because TV was “haram”, as were video games, so I wonder where the time was spent? I know sometimes the kids were just taken to the masjid to “run around”.
Often, some of the kids fell asleep in class. Others were ADHD, due in my opinion to a diet loaded with sugar, artificial colors and flaors, and the only way they could make it through the school day was for me to pass out their Ritilan prescriptions.
At the end of the day, they were the last to be picked up, often an hour or more past dismissal time. The children had dozens of “sisters”, “brothers” or “cousins” in the school. They also spoke of their father’s co-wives and/or their step-fathers. There were so many marriages and divorces and remarriage amongst them, in such quick succession I wonder how the parents ever kept track of who’s kid belonged to who. The kids were certainly at a loss. I had this recurring nightmare that someday when they got older, they might end up marrying one of their siblings.
BTW, did I mention that these glorious examples of salafi manhood had their multiple wives on welfare? That they were receiving food stamps and medical benefits (in addition to cash)? Yet somehow the kids were unwashed, their clothes were dirty, they were underfed and always seemed to have a runny nose or an ear infection. Besides the free medical care going unused for illness, there was a devil of a time trying to procure vaccination records for the children. It’s not that they werent vaccinated. The records just couldnt be found, or a trip to the doctor for a copy was too much to ask. That’s the general overview.
Specifically, there was the ADHD child who ended up in a mental hospital for expressing the desire to shoot his sister in the vagina with a pistol his father kept in the house, and to which the child had access, even on at least one occasion holding it in his hand.
There were two others, children of a famous “sheikh” who would curse their father’s new wife in front of other children and staff. She told the teachers she was considered the “town whore” by her co-wife and her friends. All this because of a “halal” polygamous marriage. Which btw, in case no one has noticed, polygamy IS illegal in this country. Even living with another woman you introduce around as your “wife” constitutes a common law marriage which can lead to charges of bigamy.
Other children still who plotted running away, so that they could finally watch TV and play video games like everyone else. These kids were not even allowed to watch Islamic videos at home. Apparently anything connected to the TV was the work of Shaytan.
Finally there was a young sister in the high school, a student, who disappeared from home and school for three days. She came back with a tale that she had fallen over a banister and in doing so injured her abdomen. Rather than takes x-rays, she told us the doctor did an internal on her, thereby ruining her “virginity”. (WTH???) And the kids in the high school in general were so tired of all the rules imposed on them at home, they chose the opposite direction. At lunch time in their class, they would remove their niqabs, take off their jilbabs, unbotton the top buttons of their shirts, and basically let it all hang out. The boys in the class were thrilled We teachers were appalled. They would arrange to meet in quiet corners on another floor, with the excuse they needed to use the bathroom. Many’s the time you’d see them in a compromising position.
Basically I have given an idea of what it is like to be a child of salafis. I could give equally horrifying examples regards the marriageable females that got caught up in what I can only call a cult.
My intent is to open the eyes of the uninformed about the dangers of this way of life. It is much closer to the old Ansar cult in Brooklyn, NY of the 80’s and 90’s under the direction of “Dr. Love”–anyone remember him–than it is to true Islam.
And finally, if I understand Mr. Ali’s comments correctly, are you trying to say that marriage with the intention of divorce is halal in the salafi dawah, and that your scholars have allowed this??? If so, can you please post links to these fatwas or teachings? I want to see proof.
And finally, thumbs up to the comments of “TheSaveRashadProject”.
The Evolutionary,
You don’t understand homework is for the kufar, and coming to school, with clean clothes would be imitating the kufar.
The brother is hard at work selling bootleg DVD’s on the subway on the way to see his other wife in the Bronx while the kids go to school in Brooklyn, so give him a break.
And it is unfair to mention Dr. York from Bushwick Ave, the brother hasn’t been with them for like 10 years.
BTW, he probably wants to know if the new teacher, who looks Puerto Rican, is single because he would love to fulfill her rights in the deen and he has two positions open and he has got the hook-up at the welfare office and can get her a fat crib in the Brownsville Projects, don’t never say he cant take care of a sister.
(I hope you know I’m joking)
Some of the ulamaa, including Ibn Baz permitted a man to get married with intent of divorce as long as the conditions of marriage were met. This is the point. The brothers are keen to stay away from zina and they are being attacked for protecting their deen and clinging to the ulamaa.
Most don’t do this, but brothers divorce these sisters when they want to follow these western standards of “romance” and want to waste time. All these sisters love to see a good man of the sunnah but after the marriage they can’t handle the sunnah in the home.
As for school, it is better to homeschool the children than to send them to these deviant muslim schools that oppose the sunnah.
Are you able to smell the fragrance of deception?
Do you see how they try to twist the issue and make every one other than them seem
to be the villain?
There is a person posting under the name “Wahhabi” and since there is no Muslim out there who refers to themselves as Wahabbi, and this person is making very ignorant statements, this person is either a kafir and trying to promote a negative image of Islam and those who strive to follow the sunnah or is from some Muslim group that hates Salafis. I have deleted his comments.
Evolutionary,
what does ANY of what you said have to do with the Qur’an and Sunnah? Again you people are following Western standards. How can you claim/imply that just because one’s children don’t get vaccinated then they are not upon the sunnah? As for dirty clothes, then know that there were some from the salaf who had dirty clothes. Did this take away from their nobility? This is the way of the hizbiyoon to try to cast doubts upon Ahlus Sunnah. Trying to say that the salafis are a cult?? Come on people! It is clear that you all don’t understand this dawah in the slightest as it is nothing more than Islam itself.
I hope that the people here can see that this forum of Umar Lee’s is a forum for the hizbees that are talking about things that don’t matter to this blessed dawah.
Just because some chickenheaded sisters have some problems they need to work out it has nothing to do with those calling to this blessed dawah. Ever thought that the brothers just can’t find the right sister that wants to practice upon the correct manhaj?
Check yourself people. This truth will never die. The salafis will always be here even if the hizbees hate it!
The Evolutionary:
That account was graphic…as well as heartbreaking. It is certainly mind-boggling to me that despite all of these horrific and plentiful tales, some of us cling to denying the decay that is right in front of us. Throwing around copied and pasted quotes to try to explain away this mess. Refute this and refute that. Man, who has time for a theological pissing contest when these kids are suffering the way they are? When reality is too stark, part of the cult knee jerk reaction is to retreat into sematics and intangibles to try and save face. Slogans, slogans, and more slogans. copy and paste some hadeeth. More slogans. The thing is, anyone can grab an ayah, a hadeeth, a quote from a scholar and basically do anything they want with it.
“Sticking to the ‘ulama is the answer”
As if YOUR scholars are trusted by all muslims.
“Stick to the sunnah and stay away from the deviants”
As if any group claims to be deviant and not on the sunnah.
“No, we’re on the sunnah because we really really are on the sunnah…”
And on and on. and our families get lost in all of this. No practical solutions for tangible problems are ever produced. No consideration for the reality we live in. Just Pie in the sky, head in the sand, fatalistic, theoretical/hypothetical jibberjabber.
I seriously wonder if some of these punks are the likes of Ibn Warraq going undercover. Ibn Ferguson - you are wrong, do yourself a favor and keep quiet. One who incites people to sin incurs the sin himself/herself.
The Evolutionary,
sounds like the private Arab school (mostly for wealthy children of Arab, largely Egyptian, Saudi, and Khaleeji parents) I taught at in Jeddah. Kids came late, dropped off by drivers or maids, and picked up late. They had clean clothes, thanks to the Indonesian maid, but were desperate for my attention and love, since many of them told me that their (birth, at any rate) parents were divorced - something like 50% - and saying that muslims are picking up the worst of Western decadent ways would be putting it mildly.
They would also come late in the afternoon, parents or drivers, and there was a classroom with some 30 children an hour after school had finished, with the children slowly disintegrating.
Pointing out that muslims have left traditional wisdom on how to raise your children and educate them, a subject on which the Sunnah and classical scholars (Imam Zarnuji, Imam Ghazali, for example) have written on a great deal, seems to have skipped by. Wearing a thowb was as far as was necessary for them to consider themselves fully ‘muslim-dressed’ - but, by the way, as a ‘western teacher,’ i had to wear a tie and dress shirt.
oh, and discipline… ? forget physically disciplining them, they ran wild and knew very well that the teachers couldnt/wouldn’t lay a hand on them. several 6th grade students tried to push a sudanese teacher, a friend of mine, out a window. the teacher was removed, students were left alone.
let’s forget that some of these kids in grades 1 and 2 (ages 6-8) would hack into the internet and view porn webpages, the means to do so and the website addresses acquired from whom?
moral crises are rampant in the muslim community - I went to saudi, hoping I would have a few better experiences with salafis than in NA. While I knew then and in NA there were several with upstanding morality, the great majority made one wish to work for Jews and Christians in NA who knew what a contract was, and honoured rights and responsibilities. (one school, a “ma’ahd” in Madinah, had an administrator who taught Qur’an tajweed at the U. of Mad. - and the school offered me a contract that “was valid for the second party but not for the first” (the school) - what is that but slavery?
muslims need to look at themselves, and understand why our community is being left in the dust, despite our incredible wealth of people, brains, resources - we squander it by allowing ourselves to be dominated by our lower selves and urges, and we are accordingly ruled by people who do the same.
Rashad, those are good and noble phrases that are used often by our ulamaa. If we were following these phrases, then the children wouldn’t suffer. We should be busying our children in getting to know the ulamaa and memorizing Islamic texts
There are many beautiful books out giving advice on raising children, but the people are just not following it. This is where the problem is. Following the ulamaa and sticking to the sunnah IS a tangible solution.
Ali Ibn Sherman Ferguson, what is this website under your link: barnonedrink??!!!!!!
It’s a mistake- the site he put in was none.com, and it turned out to be a dodgy site- have husn adh-Dhann, sister
Umar, the guy using the handle “wahabi” is actually that fake sufi kabbanist follower “mohamed.” This guy labels anybody outside of his “tariqa” a “wahabi.”
“It is, when there is love between two, then that love will not be increased by anything among the various types of means of drawing nearer, nor will anything make it last, like the marriage tie. So if they are married with that love, then the love will increase and become stronger with every day.”
the correct opinion is that this hadith is mursal and not authentic from the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم)… and you are a fool who picks and chooses what suits him.
Brother Umar,
I have to warn you, oc…if you persist in this blatant hizbiyyah, you will receive a lifetime ban from the manhaj.
And of course, that means you will never be elected to the Salafi Hall of Fame.
Please return to the haq immediately, and perhaps one day a chorus of fools with sing your praises.
Ali may be a little raw, but he is correct in what he is saying. What concern are these social problems without a solid understanding of tawheed? This is the root and this is why the ulamaa talk about this topic so much. We have no need to concern ourselves with these other affairs as we should be learning and teaching our families this deen.
In spite of how the brother came across, accepting advice and following the truth is from the most binding of obligations on all of the Muslims, no matter where it came from. And it is not permissible for the Muslim to belittle the advisor or disrespect him, no matter what his case is.
This targeting of the salafees is from tamyee which as the ulamaa have explained is lenience towards ahl ul-bida’ and often this is coupled with harshness towards salafees. This is the problem.
The people of tamyee’ and concealed hizbiyyah find fault with the Salafees. It seems that the people of tamyee only come out at times when they wish to attack the Salafees and at other times when the Scholars and the Salafees who follow them are engaged in a war with Ahl ul-Bidah, these people of tamyee remain silent and do not speak or say anything in support of the Scholars and those Salafees who follow them in their warnings from the Innovators. But these people of tamyee come out and speak whenever they find a need to attack the Salafees.
There is no need for false “unity”.
Abu Uthmaan as-Saaboonee (d. 449H) - may Allaah have mercy upon him - has explained it, he said: “And along with that they [the Salaf] unanimously agreed with their saying about the Ahl ul-Bid’ah, that they should be subdued, humiliated and disgraced, banished and driven away. That [one must] keep away from them, from those who associate with them and from those who are intimate with them. And to seek nearness to Allaah by avoiding them and fleeing from them.” (Aqeedat us-Salaf wa Ashaabil-Hadeeth).
As for Rashad’s statement above of “burying heads in the sand” then it is not the salafees but the Ahl al-bidah that do this as Imam al-Barbaahaaree said about the Ahl al-bidah, “The example of the people of innovations is like the scorpion. They bury their bodies and heads in the sands, and they leave out their tails, so that when they are able they sting. And this is the same as the people of innovation, they are concealed amongst the people, then when they are able, they achieve what they desire”.
So we say to you, get YOUR heads out of the sands and join the ranks of Ahl as-Sunnah as they are victorious
Oh my—there’s so much to comment on. I am going to have to cut and paste these comments and write responses/questions in WORD because I cant keep up with it here. Meantime, thank you Brother Umar for the links–I will go there, as well as check out some of your commenters and add you all to my blogroll. (I added you yesterday anyway, Br. Umar. You have a fantastic blog here.)
One more thing, Br. Umar…I started to read your “Rise and Fall” series. I am still on part 1 and I see you started with the 90s. Would you permit me to comment on the 80s and how the brothers who were slackers back then, fell in love with what came to be known as the salafi dawah, and worked to propogate it?
For Mr. Ali, you have created a virtual vegetable soup of comments and criticisms, and questions to me, and I still can barely make head or tales of what you are trying to say or how it all connects. So what I’d like to address first from you is this. You said: “Some of the ulamaa, including Ibn Baz permitted a man to get married with intent of divorce as long as the conditions of marriage were met. This is the point. The brothers are keen to stay away from zina and they are being attacked for protecting their deen and clinging to the ulamaa.” You are begging the question Mr Ali. PLEASE, for the last time, send me links to Sheikh Bin Baz’s EXACT fatwa on this subject, including the daleel he used to determine the “halalness” of what seems to me to be a muta’ marriage. I need to see the daleel. And I also need an answer to this question, because you keep repeating this phrase…what exactly do you mean by “as long as the conditions of marriage were met.” Please list those specific conditions. I seriously want answers to my questions. I want to understand what you are trying to say. But as you know Mr. Ali, it’s all a bunch of hot air if you cant produce the daleel. And I’ve heard that time and again from salafis, so I hardly think you arent prepared to provide the proof. Thank you.
Evolutionary,
I looked all over for bin baz’s original fatwa but couldn’t find it. Sorry. However, marriage is based on four conditions
1) The consent of both spouses
2) The consent of the Wali
3) The mahr
4) Witnesses
The difference between that and muta’ is that the muta’ contract has a stipulation of time period in it which nullifies the contract. You are still missing the point. The brothers are doing all they can to avoid zina. Should they not be applauded for that instead of bashed?
As I was looking it seems that other ulamaa like Uthaymeen disagreed and said that this is not correct. However, like I said, most brothers don’t intend to divorce, it is just that the sisters can’t handle a household run on the sunnah. And when a sister has her own house and car she thinks she can run things and dis’ a brother because he is trying to go study or if she makes more money. That money she is earning at her job is worthless compared to the knowledge of the deen I am bringing into the home.
Asalaamu alaikum
However, like I said, most brothers don’t intend to divorce, it is just that the sisters can’t handle a household run on the sunnah.
I once again advise the people not to get involved in arguing with this brother. It has degenerated to the point that he is calling muslim women “chicken heads” and they can not handle a “sunnah” house hold. Yes brothers and sisters..this is the way of the salaf and scholars to call muslim women chicken heads.This is how a muslim household should be.
May Allah guide you to the understanding of the salaf. ameen. I would hope that you would talk to one scholar the way that you have here and see if he says that your manners are indicative to the way of Muhammad (peace be upon him).
Dont disrespect the Ulema by just stating their statements without having one idea why they made those comments and to who that was intended for.
hope that the people here can see that this forum of Umar Lee’s is a forum for the hizbees that are talking about things that don’t matter to this blessed dawah.
You are not a scholar to say that anyone is a hizbee.
Musa, that was funny. I would not say the ’salafi hall of fame’, but rather ’super-salafi hall of fame’ :)
Assalamu alaikum, although the hadith I quoted might be considered “weak”, that doesn’t mean that the text, in and of itself, is *wrong*. I’m just wondering what kind of families do you have, if the woman who is getting married, can’t be suire whether or not the man is marrying her, with the intention to divorce, at the outset? Do you think that strong, vibrant, healthy Muslim families can be created if the woman can’t be sure of the stability of marriage? Why should she “act right”, if the man is just going to up and leave her anyway? If men are just divoricing all the time ostensibly because “the companions did it”, what kind of families are you going to lave behind in the wake of that decision?
The thing is, there is more to the Sunnah of our beloved prophet (peace be upon him), than a hadith here and there, and a statement such as “the companions married and divorced all the time”. If we are going to indeed follow the Sunnah we must look at how the Prophet conducted his life, and if anyone did get divroced, what was the context of that situation, and what did the prophet say, if any, regarding this?
But one thing I can almost certainly say is that the companions didn’t just marry willy nilly and then divorce with the excuse that “the sister wasn’t onthe deen”, and then leave a bunch of abandoned kids in their wake!
This is just one of many examples why it is so dangerous to just pull out a hadith, and a translated one at that, and then just say that you can justify what you are doing by that one lone hadith!
And even if Ibn Baz said soemthing, it is possible that there may be a difference of opinion ont he matter. I happen to have the understanding that though divorce is allowed, it should only be resorted to if all other options to solving the problems are exhausted! Besides, it just doesn’t seem right to me that a man, who is responsible for taking care of a woman, would marry her and not tell her that he had the intention of dirorcing her. And if they both agreed to such, then that would almost be like a temporary marriage, and again, those are not allowed. Because if you are marry, intending to divorce at the outset, then that seems to be nothing more than a temporary marriage to me. Of course, it goes without saying that if you marry, with the intent to stay married, and then divorce later, than that is different!
But I’m with Abu Sinan here, I never thought I’d actually see someone justify the sort of “hit it and quite it” attitude with Islam, and then justifying leaving by saying “the sisters aren’t on their deen”. I’d usre like to know what kind of sister “is on her deen”, that you would see fit to stay married to.
Anon: JazakAllah khair…I wasnt doubting the brother that is why I asked…I thought it was a mistake.
Brother Ali, I had ’heard’ about Sh. Bin Baz’s fatwa, not the details of it but a very brief summary (which was more so for TRAVELING brothers, who may marry with the intent of divorce) but then I also heard that Shaikh (rahimuhullah) took his fatwa back!
Ofcourse all of this was just based on my ‘hearing’ from people! And only Allah knows how true this was.
Wow, the comments were just painful to read…
Ali: It seems to me if you are basing your life, beliefs, marriages, or even this discussion on a fatwa of Sheikh Bin Baz that you can not now find, then you are in serious trouble, as is any other man who can not “find” it. I am not saying it never existed–wa Allahu alim. But if it’s as well-known a fatwa as you have pointed out, it’s important to be able to point to it. Until I can see it for myself, I think it’s hogwash. And I dont even know what real relevance it has to our discussion. The point is not marriage with or without the intention to divorce. The point is how to conduct yourself during that marriage, however temporary, and how to properly care for the children who are a product of it. Even if the wife is a “chickenhead” (what a horrible picture and thing to say) and divorce ensues, arent your children due some respect and maintainance, as well as happiness in this life? Heck, forget all that, what about proper food and clean clothing, and a wholesome outlet for their boundless energy? They cant be expected to learn much when they are hungry–even if you homeschool them–if their environment is the pits, and they cant even find clean clothes to wear, how can they be expected to love, let alone even stand, the Deen? And they cant sit like little bobbleheads, memorizing surahs and hadith, for hours on end. They need some recreation and down time to just have plain old fun. Salafis are losing their kids from a very young age. I saw it with my own eyes. Since (super-muslim) man seems to be the master of his home, dont even try to blame the chicken-headed wife. If he cant deal with her, then at least the husband has to deal with the children. I just see your whole argument as a convoluted cop-out for lack of willingness to step up to the plate and act like a man.
That’s it The Evolutionary,
A lot of brothers from across many groups (not just Salafis) have spent a lot of time learning surface deen. You know, that part of the deen that is easy to display around others. (dress code, name-dropping, reciting this, quoting that, giving “naseehah” to anything with a pulse.) I want to stress that this occurs across many groups. Generally speaking, if a brother is a good brother, and a decent, responsible man, aligning himself with salafiyah won’t change that - generally speaking. But a lot of guys are using Islamic labels to justify their trifling ways. so they learn all of the things that they can use to show off - but they never learned how to be men. Movements in general (and I mean ALL of them) are reactionary in nature anyway and not a natural expression of the deen. So while many will deny it and holler over and over that the ‘da’wah’ is this and that and is infallible (?) the truth is, like it or not, it too is but a movement. And like all movements, when the environment changes, the issues that contributed to the movement’s momentum are no longer relevent. So the movement becomes irrelevent to the dismay of its followers. And people ain’t goin’ for the slogans no more. The quotes won’t cut it anymore. The sisters are hip to what and who they should avoid…even though the playas in the masjid parking lot may hate it.
Avoiding zina? So he eliminates one sin then committing another? (ie, fathering children then leaving them or not caring for them properly). But that’s ok, he’s avoiding zina…
And kids play, Aisha had toy dolls.. or is that an innovation too?
This HAS to be a joke, it has to be. Your posts wreak of stupidity.
So I suppose Sayyida Aisha playing with dolls and watching the “whoever-they-were” playing with swords in the masjid, both activities taking place in the very presence of the Prophet Muhammad—even the foot races he (saw) and Aisha (raa) had together–all this down-time is a western, kafir (dontcha just lovvvve that word) innovation??? Geeez, someone should have kicked the Prophet out of your club then, right Ali. Free time “is a concept of the kuffar”? What about the camel races the sahaba attended–and even bet on??? Did you ever read about that in the sunnah? Washing machines are an innovation as well? I guess that explains why so many children of salafis cant seem to find clean clothes to wear. Next time your kid’s need their laundry done, why dont you give your wives a break and take it all down to the river and beat it against a rock? And your head too, while you’re at it.
Mr. Ali, your idea of Quran and Sunnah is imprisonment, of the mind and the body–even the soul. Ya Allah! “physically reprimand” your wives??? I almost wish I was one of them, because I’d break your freakin’ slacker neck if you even looked like you were gonna lay a hand on me.
I’m not even sure you are really a Muslim. You sound more like an agent provocateur to me.
In any case, you’re not a representative of real Islam. You’re a sadistic slave-driver, in addition to sounding mentally challenged. I will have NO further discussions with you. Please crawl back under your rock. Thank you.
No way this guy is real. Forget the tone even, his name above lnks to some kind of drink mixing site.
However, there are probably dudes like him out there.
I doubt its a joke, he is probably for real. Idiots can become Muslims too……
haha, good one Um Abdullah.
“That money she is earning at her job is worthless compared to the knowledge of the deen I am bringing into the home.”
Mr. Ali, if your wife’s income is so worthless I suggest you try living without it. From the way you are writing it seems you don’t work, you just “study”. And who really knows what the word “study” means in that mind of yours.
And on another topic I noticed that a lot of the comments on this post, (not just on this post or this blog, but all muslim blogs in general) there seems to be this thing of blaming the west for the problems in the muslim community. Things are too westernized, the non-muslims are corrupting our children, we must keep away from the bad unbelievers, blah blah blah. Why is it that the west must be the scapegoat for all that is wrong within in the community today. Judging purely by this post as well as Umar’s entire Salafi series I would think that time would be better served focusing on the members of the Ummah, rather than those outside of it.
Hmm, I just reread the last part of my comment and it came across as kind of preachy. Sorry, didn’t mean for it to sound that way, but don’t know how to reword it.
I can assure you that I am very much a Muslim. It is a testiment to the strangeness of the times that a person upon the sunnah seems to be non-Muslim to the common people.
Playing with dolls is permissible for the girls. But I don’t see anything about drawings and video games. These are nothing but a waste of time. People speak of camel racing, but don’t want to do it because everyone would rather invent.
If we are going to have books for the children, then we should erase all of the pictures
It is not that anyone is blaming the west, but the Muslims are following the western ways of raising children and putting them up as models for raising children and casting the sunnah aside. When a brother is not living according to the Western standards, he is accused of being negligent.
Too much for our children to learn to be occupying their time with playing and recreation.
To the contrary, a man upon the sunnah is the epitomy of manhood. The Salafee man brings knowledge into the home and teaches the women and children what they need to know. If everyone is on the same page then it works out. They get educated.
That is why these women should know the value of being married to a student of knowledge instead of them thinking that we are just sitting in the masjid all day, because studying this knowledge is hard work. When the wives don’t cooperate it forces brothers to be part time entrepreneurs to make ends meet instead of concentrating on their studies and being a value to the community.
I don’t know if Ali is serious or not but I know brothers like that
Asalaamu alaikum
May Allah protect our communities from people with this understanding. ameen
i think this ‘ali’ person doesnt have this head in the right place. I suggest that we move on to something more beneficial than telling off this poor guy who in his hearts of hearts knows the stuff he’s doing.
By the way I was told by a trustworthy da’ee in my area, and yes he had about 5-6 kids who he suported quite well :-) that this fatwa existed. However, mash’allah as one poster rightly pointed out, the issue is perhaps not even that. The issue is how a person behaves while they are married.
To divorce someone over an issue which has difference of opinion is so hilarious to me :-) And so stupid. I don’t know any other word for it.
Either Mr. Ali is the poster child for why certain groups get a bad rap…or he is the most brilliant Muslim satirist I have come across in a long while.