Sister Ginny has an interesting piece on “keeping quiet” and her experience grows out of her being a non-Gambian interested in issues of Gambia. This is an intersecting topic for Muslims in America and I see this as part of an issue of color and the convoluted mixture of leftism, political Islam and anti-whiteness that is unique to the American-Muslim. This issue becomes even more interesting when viewed by Ginny, because she is blind, and has never seen color.
Muslim or non-Muslim if you are white you will always be looked at as a racist by most African-Americans and a lot of other people of color and this can be extended to Muslims from places such as Gambia or Bangladesh or whatever. If you are working in any advocacy group for any of these countries you are there to cheerlead and assist them, not to be a dissenting or critical voice (and if you are you will be reminded you are a white devil whose job it is to fell guilty and support whatever they have to say no matter how illogical). Your job is to be the white mascot and it helps if you have money to donate to the cause. It is difficult to see how anyone can maintain any self-respect while playing this role and I think it is a losing battle to ever try and convince non-whites, especially blacks, you are not racist, and I am not going to sit around and patronize some group of morons out of some sense of white guilt.
To be clear I seldom have this problem, if ever, as I don’t think there are very many black people, if any, who I know who think I am a racist ( there are white people who have thought I was an anti-white racist); but if they did I would not be kissing their butt trying to make them think otherwise I would be telling them to get out of my face and of course this is something that a guilty white liberal cannot do because any sign of aggression towards an African-American is seen as bordering on racism.
How does this affect the Muslim community? It is two-fold, and one part of the equation is the guilty white liberal infected with leftist thought and the other part is the Black Nationalist Muslim. I specifically address this in a black and white issue because everything else in America, whether it is Latinos or Arabs, in terms of this kind of an attitude is an imitation of the black-white dynamic.
The guilty-white liberal can attend a black Masjid, and be accepted and even loved, but they have to play the role of the flunky and agree with the program. As soon as they differ with Masjid leadership, or the culture of the Masjid no matter how crazy it is, they are immediately reminded they are white and they should feel guilty. This often means you are supposed to look at a Masjid full of brothers who don’t work, are unemployed with two wives, have been married 20 times, and the roof is falling in, but you are supposed to be quiet, it aint your place to talk. The same goes with the Arab or Desi Masjid, as long as you do not differ with those in charge you are accepted, as soon as you do, then you are told you are speaking out of place and think differently because you are white and an American. With these brothers you are supposed to accept their hostility towards blacks as just a normal part of their culture and you are culturally unaware if you call them on it, and are supposed to listen to them tell you McDonalds is engaged in some kind of conspiracy against the Palestinians and you are not supposed to look at them like they are nuts.
In the past this has largely been a minor issue as leftists have been hostile to all people of faith, Muslims included, and white leftists didn’t see any need in joining “reactionary misogynistic Islam”; but with the end of the Cold War and the rise of Islam in the black community Islam became very attractive to many guilty-white liberals. Then came the fetishizing of Palestine above all other global conflicts, 9-11 and Iraq and guilty white liberals were running in force to the Masjid as Muslims were seen as the new oppressed group were their pre-Islamic concepts allowed them to be comfortable in the role of flunkies and non-believing subversives with political agendas as all that was really important to them is the political and social aspects of Islam, not the Aqeedah or Ibaaadah. If someone is down for Palestine it doesn’t matter if they don’t pray and if the oppose the occupation of Iraq they can not accept hadith and that is fine, the important thing is politics, right?
For many white Muslims this is not a problem and I know of some white brothers who try and pass for Arab or Latino, who deny their Americaness , I know of sisters who grew up in the Midwest who speak with Arabic or Desi accents and are perfect Arab and Desi wives, white sisters who have been married to 10 or 15 different African-American brothers, and all of these white Muslims have one thing in common-they all hate the fact their skin is white, and I know this because I used to feel the same way.
This is not just an issue for white Muslims ( who have a host of other issues such as arrogance, giving their secular education precedent over the revealed knowledge, having their sincerity doubted and being accused of being spies by ignorant Muslims and I am waiting for MANA, Imam Zaid, Imam Johari or MAS to address this, etc. ). Many African-American Muslims also have pre-Islamic attitudes that they bring with them into Islam that often supercede their Islamic view of the world such as Black Nationalism and street thuggery and often these all get mixed-up into one convoluted ball when they are Muslim. The “white man” becomes the “kafir” and criminal behavior suddenly becomes “jihad” just as it became “revolutionary” with the Black Panthers and other groups that engaged in criminal activities. Then and now, crime was about one thing- getting paid. In the jahiliya they sat around and talked about the white man putting anti-spermicidal in 50-cent sodas in the ghetto and in Islam they sit around and talk about how 9-11 was an inside job.
I will make one additional note to what Ginny said; Muslims are not open for the most part to internal discourse of prolems within the community. Pick up a Muslim publication such as the Mirror, the Crescent, the Muslim Observer, or go to a major convention , and you will find that Muslims are very aggressive in attacking issues of Islamophobia and external threats to Muslims but are silent in addressing the problems within the community, and thank Allah for the blogosphere or none of these issues would be discussed.
These are just some of the issues that the mixture creates. There are many more but in the interest of time I will leave it at this for now.
48 responses so far ↓
Margari Aziza Hill // May 31, 2007 at 7:22 am |
Interesting… I only recently discovered how oppressed white people have become. Sometimes I meet white people who turn to me to help absolve them of their guilt. One person asked me if there would ever be one day when they won’t be seen as guilty because they had nothing to do with slavery, nor was anyone in their family. A Jewish friend told me that in the 80s a lot of people felt guilty about the holocaust and often looked to him to absolve them of some collective Western guilt of allowing the Nazis to execute 7 million Jews. There was some Muslim alliances with the Nazis (Bosnian and Palestinian). How many of us feel guilty about that? Since we were friends, he absolved me. So, I guess I’m off the hook for now.
So, in the spirit of paying it forward I absolve any white person reading this of their guilt. Here goes:
It is not your fault that you are white. I’m not anti-white, some of my best friends are white. I enjoy some white music and culture. We should create a white history month to celebrate the cultural and intellectual heritage of the European Diaspora. Why should you feel guilty? Black people LOVE white people, really we do. So does everybody else.
It is tempting to think of freeing White Americans of their collective guilt as a new mission in life. Ward Connerly has made a career of it.
But on a more serious tip, one of my peers said the quickest way to political prominence is to become a Black Republican. If only I could buy into it, life could be grand…. well maybe not so grand but I could get a job at one of those think tanks and maybe even have a bestseller.
KashifN // May 31, 2007 at 7:56 am |
Man, what idiots those niqabi sisters are holding that “God bless Hitler” banner.
Umm Adam // May 31, 2007 at 9:17 am |
1. The pics you post crack me up. I can’t stand to see eyebrows of women in niqab and you know you need to tell your fellow white viewers who Public Enemy is! I haven’t seen Flavor and Chuck D in so long!
2. The only black my dh has ever had a problem with discussing black issues is me. We get in heated debates over Affirmative Action. I’ve had other blacks take his position over mine. Sell Outs!
GFood one Aziza! I thought you were serious at first!
bibliophile // May 31, 2007 at 9:39 am |
Niqabi sisters holding Hitler banner.
Who? What? When? Where? WHYYYY?
I’d like to know the context of that particular image.
Safia // May 31, 2007 at 10:21 am |
The sign in the back says ‘free media’ or something, so I don’t know where Hitler comes in. People doctor photos all the time on the internet, especially with people holding signs, to make it say something else as a joke or an effort to be satirical or whatever. (not that Umar did that, but that’s how he found the picture). Anyway, who knows.
Umar Lee // May 31, 2007 at 11:24 am |
Margari, there actually was a huge phenomona of conversion to Judaism in Germany in the 1960’s thru the 80’s and a lot of that was collective guilt.
I just found the pic, not sure of tis context, but when I was in Palestine I met a toddler named Hitler, and have several Muslims over the years tell me of their admiration for Hitler. I remember being at the masjid in St. Louis with Brother Tim Kaminski listening to a Pakistani brother with a FOB accent yell “we need another Hitler!” and Tim, a longtime leftist before embracing Islam, said ” we already got another Hitler, his name is Bush” ( for the record I do not think Bush is nowhere near the same as Hitler). I also had an argument with a group of young Bosnian Muslims with big beards on the same issue and I had to get up and walk away because I wanted to knock them out because they were so ignorant of history and anything I said negative of Hitler they would reply “that is what the Jews lie and say and you believe it”.
MotherOfAminata // May 31, 2007 at 12:05 pm |
Salaam’Alaikum
This is too funny!!
LOL : )
Brother Umar Lee- you have some serious sabar brother.
LOL : )
MotherOfAminata // May 31, 2007 at 12:08 pm |
This is not just an issue for white Muslims ( who have a host of other issues such as arrogance, giving their secular education precedent over the revealed knowledge, having their sincerity doubted and being accused of being spies by ignorant Muslims and I am waiting for MANA, Imam Zaid, Imam Johari or MAS to address this, etc. ). UmarLee
Don’t hold your breath brother!! : (
Abu Sinan // May 31, 2007 at 1:07 pm |
Thanks for that post Umar. I can sort of understand where African Americans are coming from, I could never understand really because I am a white guy, but Islam is supposed to be where this all ends.
The sad fact is that it doesnt end in Islam. Race has as many issues within the Muslim world as it does outside of it.
I have walked into mosques, in this country and in Europe, and I can feel the stares from some men who feel that the mosque is some place that white people just dont belong. These types have not left their racial animous when they converted to Islam.
It is almost as if I stepped into a protected zone where whites are not allowed. Some “Whitey Free Zone” like the “Arab Free Zones” in occupied Palestine or “Jewish Free Zones” in Nazi occupied Europe.
As for me, I dont care to try and prove anyone wrong. If someone wants to make a judgement call about what kind of a person I am based on nothing more than my skin colour, that is their option and I am not going to waste energy trying to change these people’s entire outlook on the world.
I dont have “white guilt” because I didnt do anything. This does not mean I do not accept and realise the history of the USA and Europe, it does not mean I do not realise that I do not get advantages because of my skin colour. What it means is that I am not responsible for any of this save for my ability to speak out against injustice and racism when I see it.
More often than not the racism I see comes from Muslims. I see a lot of hatred against Jews as well. I think the only guilt that we, as whites, should feel is when we see injustice and do not act or speak out against it. Feeling guilty about something we were not a part of and cannot change is a waste of time.
I was born in Germany, or German descent. I was raised in a very racist household, yet I made the choice as a young adult to get away from all of that and eventually turned to Islam. I am not responsible for the history of Germany, of the USA, or even for the way I was raised as a child. I am entirely responsible for my actions as an adult and the way I react to the things I see.
Ginny // May 31, 2007 at 1:22 pm |
Assalamu alaikum, Umar Lee and Abu Sinan, and everyone else! Wow, Umar, thank you for expounding on my post. You make a lot of good points. BTW, I had no idea of the pictures, until I read the comments. (Jaws doesn’t normally let you know of the pictures, unless they have text tags and I don’t know how to tell anyone to put those kinds of tags on the pics). Secondly, Abu Sinan, I definitely agree with you. I think we as white people should not feel any “collective guilt” for things that happened many if not hundreds of years ago, that we had no part in. However, at the same time, whether we like it or not, we are on the top of the hierarchy, so to speak. And the best thing we can do, I think, is to do what we can to speak out against, and do something about the things we *can* control, while Allah chooses to put us here on this earth.
As I said on my blog, it’s tempting to feel guilty, as a white person, and furhter expounding on that here, perhaps feeling that kind of guilt gives us a reason to feel sorry for ourselves! The problem with myself is, as much as I’d like to say that I don’t care what anyone else thinks of me, I’ve had times where it has really hurt me that people automatically assume that I’m racist or prejudiced just because of my skin color. But of course, just as others get stereotyped because of their looks or color, why should white people be any exception?
It has just been a bit hurtful to me that I’ve worked so hard to ensure that I don’t harbor those same prejuidces against others, etc., and yet that just doesn’t matter.
And Umar, I don’t think I fall into *any* of those categories that you mentioned. *smile* I’ve not been married 10/15 times, I don’t speak with an Arab accent, and I don’t strive to be the “perfect wife” of any ethnicity, because I know I’m not perfect. I strive to be the best Muslim / wife / woman / person that I can be.
Also, as a white person, I don’t feel the need to put my “intellectual” superioroty, oh, I’m too lazy to scroll up and see how Umar worded this, but I don’t put “my knowledge” ahead of what Allah has revealed to us!
Although as I have graduated from college, I guess you could say I’m “educated”. However, I also recognize that human knowledge is finite while Allah’s Knowledge and Wisdom are not.
Anyway, I am glad that you found my post interesting. Perhaps once I get home I’ll expound on your points a little further. Depends on how I feel, though, as my throat is sore, and I may just want to sleep once I get home. We’ll see, though.
Margari Aziza Hill // May 31, 2007 at 3:13 pm |
You know what really pissed me off, when the Syrians rolled out the red carpet for David Duke. They just loved him because he hated Jews, in addition to Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and everybody who is not white. It just highlights how Syrians construct themselves. That just makes my stomach hurt. When I saw those pictures, I had the urge to hurl. I remember reading a book on Palestine “Strangers..” I can’t remember the title. But the Arab author’s father had a Hitler moustache. I think he rocked it on purpose.
Abu Sinan, you’re right. None of us should feel guilty, except for that which we have done by our own actions. That whole white guilt thing is doesn’t help Black people. I don’t have the energy trying to make people feel comfortable in their own skin. I’m just trying to be comfortable in mine. I don’t like the assumption that because of the color of my skin, I think all white people are racist. That also creates an environment of distrust and resentment.
I’m not feeling the Black Power mosques. I feel guilty about how they treat brothers like you and Umar–but wait I will draw from Abu Sinan’s advice to only feel guilty about things I haven’t spoken up against. I will try to bring these issues up to the Muslim community leaders that I know. Black Power mosques haven’t done anything to empower the Black community anyways. So continually having grievances against non-Blacks is a way to deflect their impotency.
abdul-haqq // May 31, 2007 at 3:44 pm |
About a week ago, on the comments of “Monday Mailbag”, I was accused of being a white supremacist. So far, no one’s apologized.
Responding to Umar Lee's Post Regarding "Keeping Quiet" « Ginny’s Thoughts & Things // May 31, 2007 at 4:09 pm |
[...] Race Issues, Controversy, Thoughts, Islam, Weblogs — Ginny @ 12:08 pm Assalamu alaikum, Umar Lee responded to my post regarding “keeping quiet”, so I wanted to respond back, in a [...]
Abu Sinan // May 31, 2007 at 4:09 pm |
Your comments did come off rather racist “abdul-Haqq” and they did sound like a previous white supremacist that had posted here, but no one called you a racist even though your comments certainly sounded like it.
I, personally, wondered if you were the neo-Nazi/wannabe Muslim because your comments echoed his.
Instead of mistakenly looking for an apology I think you’d be better off looking at your opinions and words and wondering WHY people might mistake you for such a person.
No one here knows anything about you but your words and ideas. If people think these mark you out to have racist ideas, you should look in the mirror before you come looking for apologies.
abdul-haqq // May 31, 2007 at 4:15 pm |
“Your comments did come off rather racist “abdul-Haqq” and they did sound like a previous white supremacist that had posted here, but no one called you a racist even though your comments certainly sounded like it.”
Your own comments were racist. That’s what I was trying to make a point about. If you look back at what I said you would see that,
abdul-haqq // May 31, 2007 at 4:20 pm |
Let’s keep in mind that you were the one who said:
“This has to do with preference. I am white, like Umar, but really dont find white women attractive. It isnt personal, it isnt a race issue. There are white women I do find attractive, just not many.”
You’d be hard press to find a white woman that woudn’t find this at least a tad bit insulting. Then you said:
“I like dark skin, dark hair and dark eyes, it is a personal preference.”
Good job fetishing non-white women! That’s both sexist and racist.
Umar Lee // May 31, 2007 at 5:08 pm |
Abdul-Haqq, I disagree, personal preference is personal preference. I also see where you are coming from a little bit because even while I like to see interracial marriages I know that most do not work for any number of reasons and that a lot of people are better off just not going there; but for me I like Latinas, black women, and even some Desis, Arabs, Sephardi Jews, Italians and Asians as long as they have a little something to work with and I like the dark facial features. If a white girl is built like Melyssa Ford and can move like Shakira we can holla. There is also the issue of compatibility, given the way I grew up and have lived I agree with what Umm Adam said years ago ” cant no white or immigrant sister handle that brother” it is just a fact. Given the fact that most white Muslim sisters are Sufis then you have a whole different thing going on and I am not the kind of brother who likes to meditate over butterflys or get in touch with my “feminine” side or go camping and I am not hating on anybody like that if that is you I am just saying it isn’t me. Now if I can find a woman like my white grandmother that would be good; but they don’t make them like that anymore.
abdul-haqq // May 31, 2007 at 5:24 pm |
I’m not against interracial marriage. Nor am I for it. It’s a personal choice. The only reason I’ve said that I can’t see myself married to a black woman is that it’s sort of unfeasible. I grew up around nothing but white people (except at school), in a trailer park in the south. I have no illusions about preserving “racial purity” or being some sort of an “Aryan Superman”. I hold no racist views whatsoever. It’s just a matter of circumstances really.
Abu Sinan // May 31, 2007 at 5:38 pm |
Saying that you prefer a certain type of woman over another is not racism Abdul-Haqq. I guess if you tell me you dont like blond women that makes you a ethnic hater of Germanic women? Not at all.
It is all about looks for me. I do like some white women, those that are from Spain or Italy that are dark haired, dark eyed and have an olive complexion.
That does not make me a racist any more than the fact that a lot of white guys like Asian women makes them racist.
Personal perference about looks is one thing, now if I said “all white women are stupid, so I like Arab women” or “all white women are whores, so I like Indian women” I would agree.
But to say that because I like dark hair, eyes and complexion makes me a racist is just plain stupid.
I was born in Germany, I lived in Europe for years and was raised in a very lilly white area. In my High School of 3,500 students probably about 1% of them were white.
Before I became a Muslim the majority of my girlfriends had dark hair and dark eyes. I wasnt interested in non white girls then because there werent really in my area, not to mention I was raised in a pretty racist household. If I had brought home a Mexican or black girl there would have been hell to pay.
I dont think any woman, white or otherwise, who doesnt have a self esteem issue, that would make a personal choice about looks into a race issue. I guess I could scream “RACIST” at the 95% of women who want a “tall, DARK, and handsome man”, since I am tall, very white, very blond and very blue eyed. But the only thing that would do is highlight my own insecurities.
Any person who finds personal preference racist is someone who is either racist themselves or has self esteem issues. By all means, if someone prefers someone or people who dont look like me…….have at them.
Even if 95% of women (and they arent racist) want the “tall, DARK and handsome” type, I never had any problem even if I am not dark.
The whole racism issue is YOUR issue, not people like Umar and I who just dont prefer white women.
You’ll be happy to know that both of my boys have blond hair and light coloured eyes as well as being very white. So I guess I didnt contaminate the racial blood stock too much.
GOMEZ // May 31, 2007 at 6:10 pm |
Umar, I agree with most of what you have said. As a Latino, I have seen these white-bashing people even within the Latino Muslims. My wife is mix 75% white and 25% pashtun but she grew up with her grandma and mom who are whites. Sisters talk trash about white people in front of her and they do not realize that they are straight up racist.
One Mexican brother that I met was so anti-English that I was sure that he was hanging around with the wrong crowd. I asked him “who do you hang around with at the Masjid” he told me the brother’s name who I knew personally. It was a Chicano ultra-Salafi (not hating on the Salafi brothers) who had taken freedom for Aztlan (Aztec land Mexico and California) to “let’s bring the glorious Caliphs back” same crap—revolutionist people who never left the comforts of America.
At the end, I told the brother that Allah is the creator of humanity and the creator of languages and he should acknowledge that. He is, Alhamdalillah changing.
If a white Muslim becomes a Scholar of Islam, they title him “the Great White Shaikh” and of course for the racist bigots, he is a Shaikh only because he is white, never mind the 10-20 years serious studies. If a black brother studied the same or less….no quarrels there, he is the by default the Scholar of Ahlu Sunnah wa Jumma’ah.
The counter-reaction is coming; I have seen white people revolting specially going after Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson bigotry.
Natalia Antonova // May 31, 2007 at 6:38 pm |
***and have several Muslims over the years tell me of their admiration for Hitler. ***
Ditto.
fairuzamizna // May 31, 2007 at 7:41 pm |
Do these idiot Muslims realize what Hitler would have done to THEM, if given the chance?
Safiya // May 31, 2007 at 8:00 pm |
There were Muslims doing the right thing in WW2. The Imam at the Grand Mosque in Paris sheltered scores of Jews and Albania was a place of refuge for many Jews. It’s a shame these facts are often lost to history.
One thing I don’t understand Umar, how can you find the Jewish state of Israel acceptable, but not Northern Ireland being part of the U.K?
Abu Sinan // May 31, 2007 at 8:01 pm |
Fairuza,
Good point. I think Muslims working with Nazis is pretty close to the modern relationship of some Jews and Jewish groups with the far right Christian groups.
The goal of these far right Christians, their view of the end game, is a world where Jews (everyone for that matter) must submit to their version of religion or be sent to Hell.
It might look like a good relationship, even for short term benefit, but neither the Muslims nor these Jews seem to have given much thought to what happens to them if and when their “partners” actually win.
It is sad that such people are so short sighted.
Umar Lee // May 31, 2007 at 8:11 pm |
Safiya, in my mind they are apples and oranges, two different situations, the Jewish problem was a historical problem lasting 20 centuries that would have continued to get worse if nothing was done and a radical solution was needed. The UK would not cease to exist without the six counties of northern Ireland. and Please Allah do not let this turn into a discussion on the modern 6th Pillar, there are a million places you can discuss that, the issues I addressed in this post can only be found on blogs.
Umar Lee // May 31, 2007 at 8:17 pm |
I also think people exaggerate the connections between Muslims and Nazis in WWII. Some Muslims fought against Nazis and others fought with them, but there was no great base of support in the Muslim World for Hitler.
halalhippie // May 31, 2007 at 9:31 pm |
@ Margari Aziza Hill: This liberal, white infidel is very grateful for being thus absolved. Not only am I not Muslim, I’m Danish. (cartoons, anyone?) 1½ year-guilt trip.
Umar, great post,.
abdul-haqq // May 31, 2007 at 10:02 pm |
“You’ll be happy to know that both of my boys have blond hair and light coloured eyes as well as being very white. So I guess I didnt contaminate the racial blood stock too much.”
This comment implies that I’m a white supremacist and a racist. I said previously:
“I have no illusions about preserving “racial purity” or being some sort of an “Aryan Superman”. I hold no racist views whatsoever.”
It’s really low of you to continually portray me as some kind of Nazi when I’m nothing of the sort. I despise racists and had to deal with growing up around those kinds of people. It hurts me to the core that you persist in thinking I’m one of them. I have dark hair and dark eyes. I’m 1/4 Native American. Nazis and KKK are the scum of the earth.
And if anything, you contaminated your wife’s Arab blood with the blood of your beer and sausage-fed Teutonic ancestors. J/K
Abu Sinan // May 31, 2007 at 11:26 pm |
Your continued obsession says more about your feelings than I ever could. I would simply refer others to your previous posts and what you have said here. You words say it all.
It is clear you have some feelings about race that you have not dealt with yet. I suggest you do so for you own health.
Abdul Haqq? La…….inta? Mafee Haqq.
abdul-haqq // May 31, 2007 at 11:30 pm |
You’re being kind of a jerk.
unaha-closp // June 1, 2007 at 12:32 am |
I get the impression you do not attend a lot of white majority situations, because you’d realise if you dissent from any group going to be subjected to personal attack to cull you from the group.
Arthur Schopenhauer once wrote, “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” You make a suggestion that cannot easily be ridiculed, therefore you get opposed.
With you being a white muslim you are a minority by race in the religion and your race is the easiest thing to attack. But if it wasn’t this it’d be somethingelse. Just ignore it and figure out who is behind the attacks (leading the group) and work around them. If you want the roof fixed you are not going to get it done by arguing about guilt, slavery and the white man’s burden.
Margari Aziza Hill // June 1, 2007 at 3:17 am |
Abdul Haqq,
Because we still exist in a society with a European standard of beauty, I think a white man saying that he has other preferences has a different meaning than an ethnic minority who have a negative self image because of the dominant society.
While I am not a white woman I am sure that white women will not shed tears if a few white men in the world say that they are not particularly attracted to white women. I sort of know the flip side, I don’t really care if a Black man says he isn’t really feeling Black women or brown skinned women. If any man prefers something else, I’d prefer not to be involved with him as an “acceptable” Black woman. He can really keep stepping and it is no sweat off my back.
abdul-haqq // June 1, 2007 at 3:41 am |
I just wanted to make the point that being attracted to one’s own race doesn’t make one a supremacist or a seperatist.
Margari Aziza Hill // June 1, 2007 at 6:17 am |
Abdul Haqq,
I think people get carried away when talking about fetishization and objectification. I guess my preference for tall slender men (while I am short-medium height)makes me fatphobic in your politically correct world. You need to qualify your accusations a bit more. When you carry out your logic its full extent it really falls short. Also, the overuse of the word racist has killed its validity. It is just a word people throw around.
Halal hippie, I do my best….
Hisham // June 1, 2007 at 7:05 am |
Pick up a Muslim publication such as the Mirror, the Crescent, the Muslim Observer, or go to a major convention , and you will find that Muslims are very aggressive in attacking issues of Islamophobia and external threats to Muslims but are silent in addressing the problems within the community, and thank Allah for the blogosphere or none of these issues would be discussed.
Like any small community under siege, we are in defensive mode right now. The day another attack happens (and most experts believe it will), we’ll all be in “relocation” camps (where folks like you can philosophize all you want about “race relations in the Ummah” or whatever).
In light of that harsh reality, reformation isn’t exactly at the top of our to-do list and rightly so.
Umar Lee // June 1, 2007 at 10:20 am |
I think it is a fantasy, even a desire, of some leftist influenced Muslims that we all be shipped into camps so they can really get some street cred by being oppressed by “the man”. These same publications were not talking about internal Muslim issues before 9-11, so I think it is more cultural and comes from the attitude in the Muslim World of seeing a problem and ignoring it, brushing it under the rug, or making up a conspiracy theory to explain it away and has less to do with the political climate.
Abu Sinan // June 1, 2007 at 12:55 pm |
Abdul Haqq posts “I just wanted to make the point that being attracted to one’s own race doesn’t make one a supremacist or a seperatist.”
I think if your ideas are such that you think being attracted to people OTHER than your own race makes YOU think that people who do are racist against their own people, then yes, it DOES make you a racist.
Like I said, you have some unresolved race issues that are uncompatable with Islam, but then again, so do many “born” Muslims.
Ginny // June 1, 2007 at 1:02 pm |
Assalamu alaikum, assuming that there *will* be another attack, and assuming htat at that point Muslims *will be* shipped off to “relocaiton camps”, that still doesn’t excuse, imho, the burshing under the rug, the ignoring, and hte pretending, that the problems that go on in our communities do not exist! I don’t think we can live in the “whit-if” land, and say, oh we might have another attack, so we gotta be in defensive mode and thus pretend we don’t have problems when clearly we do!
Along with keeping in the back of our minds what *could* happen, we also need to deal wit hthe here and now, the reality of things as they are now! And work from there! Yes, deal with the “external threats” but we also need to deal with the “internal threats” to our community as well.
fairuzamizna // June 1, 2007 at 2:59 pm |
Okay, these posts are making me like I have to confess something….
sniffle sniffle……..
I am a white girl (Celtic ancestory) and I think Daniel Day Lewis is HOT.
Can you please forgive me Abdul Haqq?
abdul-haqq // June 1, 2007 at 3:59 pm |
So? You can like whoever the hell you want. Personally, I loves me some Scarlett Johansson. She’s half-Jewish. Oooooooohhh, scandalous.
Abu Sinan // June 1, 2007 at 4:02 pm |
Fairuza,
I guess you like Last of the Mohicans huh? That is a good movie.
I have to admit something………..I am a white guy, German ancestry, and I find Bahar Soomekh hot. She is a Iranian born Jew.
fairuzamizna // June 1, 2007 at 5:03 pm |
No Abu, I actually fell in love with him after “In the name of the Father”
Now get this, are you ready?……..
You won’t believe this, but I just googled Daniel Day Lewis and……..gulp………HE IS HALF JEWISH TOO!!!!!!!! I can’t stop laughing! My dear Brothers, there is a greater conspiracy at work here I’m afraid: we are all attracted to half Jews! (I guess I should have figured it out when I married a full-blooded Jew, huh?)
Damn, my theory about being attracted to my own race is getting all shot to hell!!! Help me. Someone!
I’m off…gotta go google Joseph Fiennes…..pray for me, please!
LOL
Abu Sinan // June 1, 2007 at 5:19 pm |
Fairuza,
I thought you knew he was 1/2 Jewish and that is why you said what you did? I respect the guy because he isnt the typical Hollywood type and when filming Last of the Mohicans he walked off stage in support of workers who were striking.
I liked In the Name of the Father as well, but then again I am a fool for Irish things.
There are a few white women I find attractive…….Jennifer Garner is one. I was going to say Madeleine Stowe, but then I forgot she is half Latina.
fairuzamizna // June 1, 2007 at 7:49 pm |
hmmm……
Yeah maybe I was a little confused…my head is really spinning from all this racism talk. I thought somewhere along this thread that there was an insinuation that being attracted to members of ones own race made one a racist of some sort. I seriously didn’t know DDL was a half Jew, (I am sure my husband is going to have a field day with this one, as he swears that I am only attracted to Jews).
Anyways…to make a side point:
I don’t think that you can tell who a person is attracted to even if they are a card carrying racist. look what many Nazi men did with Jewish women or white settlers to Natives; slave owners to slaves. You can’t tell me that it was all for “power”. Attraction is a very complex issue altogether. It definitely falls way beyond our levels of comprehension. Don’t you all think so?
anyways….gotta run….interesting topic, for sure.
BoozePenguins // June 2, 2007 at 1:23 am |
By suggesting that every problem in the “non-white” world is the fault of colonialist crimes carried out 250 years ago there seems to me anyways, to be some sort of implicit racism, the modern day version of the nobel savage myth – as though non-white people need to be treated as though they have been so victimized they can’t be held responsible for their actions anymore, even though they are human beings, just like anybody else.
fairuzamizna
With regard to the Nazi’s – control plays a major role in sexual behavior for psychopaths. Sexual crimes committed against camp girls by SS guards (selected for psychopathic traits – you gotta be to do that job) were probably satisfying a hunger to dominate and control the weak. For a psychopath sex is more about taking from the woman, putting the woman in a position of complete and utter helplessness, or being in a position of complete and total domination over her, and less about mutual attraction.
In current clinical use, psychopathy is most commonly diagnosed using the checklist devised by Emeritus Professor Robert Hare. He describes psychopaths as “intraspecies predators [13] [14] who use charm, manipulation, intimidation, and violence [15] [16] [17] to control others and to satisfy their own selfish needs. Lacking in conscience and in feelings for others, they take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without guilt or remorse” [18]. “What is missing, in other words, are the very qualities that allow a human being to live in social harmony
Psychopathy
Another good bit about psychopaths (sociopaths are the same, but made that way by environmental factors, instead of neurobiology)…. Just thought people should know.
Imagine – if you can – not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.
And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.
Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless.
You are not held back from any of your desires by guilt or shame, and you are never confronted by others for your cold-bloodedness. The ice water in your veins is so bizarre, so completely outside of their personal experience, that they seldom even guess at your condition.
I happen to have grown up with one such individual. I know a thing or two about how they approach intimate sexual relationships.
Abdul Rahman Abdullah // June 2, 2007 at 9:44 am |
Salaam Alaikum
I’d like to compliment you on your website and May Allah bless you.
Concerning the situation of B/W amongst American Muslims i think of the fact that Allah forgives the new convert all his past sins yet doesn’t wipe away his defects.
We all carry defects that are in our culture and defects that are in ourselves.
Allah said he created us in different tribes to know one another. In the knowing of one another is the knowing of oneself.
Every sickness has a cure i believe we carry the cure for each others sickness if we can arrive at the stage of really wanting to know each other.
It’s easy to see somebody elses faults but in the mirror of your believing brother you can see your own.
Allah knows best.
Suhaib // June 3, 2007 at 4:47 am |
As Salaam Alaykum,
First of all, this is the same person who was earlier accused of being a racist, last May. I don’t intend any argument by this, but I would like the chance to defend myself, from assertions made by brother Abu Sinan:
Since last October, I have abandoned any sort of cooperation with the AN or any Neo-Nazi group, so one should be honorable and inquire as to what my actual beliefs are, rather than relying on one’s own perceptions.
In any case, despite the fact I specifically eschewed any sense of racism, Abu Sinan continues to call me a “white supremacist”. I made my sentiments clear in that original message, that I did not regard other races or cultures as “superior” or “inferior”.
My purposes for cooperation was to aid the cause of the Muslims, in the sense of lessening hostility towards Islam and getting them to target Zionists. That was my intention: The act may have been a wrong thing to do to begin with, but I had good intentions nonetheless.
Even when I did cooperate with them, I did not embrace their ideology but I did turn a blind eye to it, acting like it didn’t exist. I made every effort to moderate their ideology – and most of my posts in this regard are still in the archives of their forum.
Nevertheless, I realized that even this much was futile and we should only rely on ourselves. My messages to that group were always in opposition to their racial theories and my last posts were devoted to da’wah.
Although the likes of Abu Sinan continue with their slanders, I feel vindicated in my efforts and how I took the next step and abandoned something which I simply could not ignore any longer.
You may question my Islam, but know that every slander you continue to make against me, they will be counted among my good deeds, by Allah (Subhanahu wa-Ta’ala).
All of my past deeds – whatever you think about them – are between me and Allah (Subhanahu wa-Ta’ala). In any case, I look forward to your response, insha’Allah wa-Ta’ala.
Wa Alaykum as-Salaam,
Suhaib
Adil // June 13, 2007 at 3:26 pm |
You mention in this post that The Muslim Observer is not open to discussion of problems in the Muslim community and I take issue with this, having written an article which discusses those issues in detail by reporting the speech of Prof. Jeffrey Lang at the Bloomfield Muslim Unity Center on March 10 of this year.