Alhamdudilah I became Muslim before I ran into some of the people I do today or I may not have entered the deen. Islam was presented to me and it was understood as a radial alternative to the way of life here. Islam is not a religion it is a way of life I was told. Indeed after taking my shahadah at the age of seventeen I quickly realized that the beliefs of the Muslims in many areas are radically different than what I was raised with.
The brothers who first taught me and nurtured me into the deen were good brothers with a love for the Sunnah and they allowed me to make a slow transition into the lifestyle of a Muslim.
Alhamdudilah, I met these brothers, but the other day I asked myself another question; if I would have met “progressive” or “modernist” Muslims would I have ever became Muslim?
What would have happened if I would have went to a masjid whose only religious activity is interfaith and where there is a minimal observance of the Sunnah? What if I was told Muslims, Christians, and Jews are one big happy family? That essentially we all believe the same thing we just call God by different names? That on matters of the family we refer to child psychology and not the Sunnah? That on gender relations we refer to feminism and not the Sunnah? That on business matters we refer to the Wharton School instead of the Sunnah school? That yes we believe in Tauheed but those who believe the Creator had a son are also believed in Tahheed?
I do not think I would have ever become Muslim. If there was no unique difference between Islam and kufr why become Muslim? If I was just as good and believed the same thing when I was going to church why become a Muslim?
Dawah is an obligation for the Muslim. We are supposed to share this mercy with our neighbors. We cannot do that if we are saying there is nothing unique in Islam and all things are relative. We cannot do that if we are afraid of hurting people’s feelings by telling them what they believe is false.
Subhanallah akhee! I’ve been saying this for the past few years. There’s virtually no talk of what Islam offers non-Muslims. There’s virtually no talk of how Islam can improve the political and social sphere, *WITHOUT COMPROMISING ITSELF*. The only talk you hear is “We’re just like you! No difference. No incentive.”
Non-Muslims come to the masjid and there is a constant mantra of, “We’re all from the Abrahamic faiths.” Yes, we are. But we offer a complete system whose goal is to enforce justice and equality. Those Muslims that have been respected throughout history were not pawns. Those Muslims who inspired many of us to accept Islam stood in direct opposition to commonplace attitudes and mediocrity, yet our leadership is telling us everyday to just be mediocre — just say your prayers. Just read the Qur’an. Don’t think about changing the minds of those around you.
Why should anyone accept Islam when our leadership encourages the production of nothing more than followers, not innovators, thinkers, or social reformers who use our rich history and texts as a blueprint? Learning not only from our high points in history, but our LOWS as well (and believe me, we are in a low right now).
Alhamdulilah that the brothers I met when I was a young Muslim (at 17 just like you) gave me straight, frank answers — not beating around the bush in fear of a hostile political climate (that, inshallah will pass).
The truth is though brother, if Allah wants to guide you to this religion he will make it happen. He will make it happen if every single Muslim in your community is corrupt or if they are all model Muslims. An intelligent person can pick up the Qur’an and read, understanding that what he’s hearing from the minbar is not the essence of this religion. The hadiyah is from Allah, so I just thank Allah he showed what he did in life.
Al Hamdulillah for this post.
I
I pressed submit by accident.
What I was going to say, is that I go to Progressive Muslim forums and blogs and discuss with these Muslims all the time, and I don’t know.
Since I’m desi, and a good chunk of these progressives are desi Muslims, I think I can do a little psychology. Growing up desi in the West, as a child you’re made fun of alot by Westerners. Your name is funny, people don’t take the time to try to pronounce your name right and many times disrespect you on purpose by saying it wrong or trying to shorten it to an American one (Muhammed becomes “Mo”). Your culture is funny, you look funny, you smell funny. I saw desi kids take a couple of roads as a response, two of the most prominent being:
1. Completely become “white” (if they grew up in the city, they might try to “act” Spanish or Black). This also meant embracing everything their religious/conservative parents told them was bad about the West (drinking, sex, clubbing, etc). These kids embrace it to the point that they define being Western or American as this, totally ignoring the fact that this country is basically struggling with these phenomena as well and there are still plenty of conservatism in this country, which is also considered American.
2. become really religious and shun everything Western, completely ignoring the many benefits of Western society which should be incorporated within the purview of Islamic civility.
The progressives seem to me to be trying to ride the middle wave. But they still view the second option (Islam) through the eyes of the first option (love of dunya and pleasure). Instead of the lower class white kids or Spanish kids opinions that scared them, they’re now scared of their liberal white friends and their opinions. They want Islam to be as soft as baby poo in terms of its ability to change this society. Don’ get in the way of my investments and movies, is their thought.
This is a sad pathology that needs to be nipped in the bud just like the stone hearted extremists who profession of Islam is superficial and the meaning doesn’t go pass their throats. I think the fact the Progressive Muslim Alliance falling apart was a proof of this. They couldn’t even agree with each other and their lack of adab really diminished their stature. And they blame Muslims as much as the people who hate Islam blame Muslims. It’s very hard to differentiate the two at times.
This is a general desi problem; desis are a new type of immigrant. They got money way too fast and were able to become part of the elite way too fast. I mean most of our parents are still stuck in the 60s or 70s of their culture back home and their kids grew up in the current day America. Their kids know everything and know how to lie and hidel; their parents simply care if they make money and have a good standing in this dunya, not of their character or piety.
Assalaamualaikum.
Much of what you say makes sense. You have also addressed the other extreme in your past posts; I don’t know if a potential Muslim would accept Islam through a cultish group of Muslims who possess the mentality of ‘my way or the highway’. These group of Muslims have driven so far off the course with their narrow interpretations of Islam and Muslims. They stress on what a Muslim should look like and they nearly forget about Taqwa, patience and balance; things which set the firm foundation of a Muslim’s belief. With their hollow and shallow mentality of declaring others to be ‘off the manhaj’, or ‘imitating the kuffar’, I feel that alot of converts within their circles lose their paths, become confused and may leave Islam entirely. Some questions which are in dire need of being addressed in all Muslim communities are…
just what constitutes Deen, and what is not Deen? In what areas of Islam should we stress on with new Muslims? What are the first things we should talk about with new Muslims? We need to be taught the simple steps in how to communicate with converts; many of them come from backgrounds that an immigrant Muslim or an ‘indigenous’ Muslim may have NO idea how to relate to. We should be flexible in our approaches to Dawah, because we are going to be encounter people from different walks of life. We should get to know them first, and become friends and really understand where they are coming from. In the end, they are humans and have had experiences in their past that other Muslims simply cannot relate to. But we can try and make the effort to understand them; and value them as an individual and not some dawah project. Islam is a way of life and was taught in stages; so we should give Islam its due time to strengthen hearts.
Its important for any new convert to study traditional Islam for themselves, many of them are being entertained by people with an agenda like political groups (hizb tahrir), salafis, progressive muslims etc. Some are setting up stalls calling for an Islamic State a few months after their conversion and end up leaving Islam feeling its not for them.
Great post and great comments.
I agree 100%
Salam alaikum Mr Umar (ahlan wa sahlan),
Your point is very cogent but, theologically, recieved a response from ‘Haroon’.
From this view, you had no ‘choice’ and the fact that you beleive you did choose Islam rather than Islam choose you, points to ‘secular’ conditioning. It points to progressive thought.
A religious tradition is not a ‘political party’. It need not be original, or different. It may offer a unique path (for an individual or society). Its uniqueness may contain a paradox, perhaps an irony. It may claim it is not different but offeres a timeless message (Islam, Sikhism) and it may even say, like Guru Nanak in 15 century Punjab, that there is ‘no difference between Musalman or Hindu’ and promptly, in that conflicting society, found a new religion.
Yeah,
Muhammad Alshareef from Al-Maghrib spoke on this once, making a good point by saying who wants RC Cola when you can buy Coca Cola. There is a culture of appeasement that has crept into everything from how we view our deen to gender relations. We just want to kiss up, earn brownie points, and look at everything through rose colored lenses. Conflict is part of life, in fact it is through conflict that most problems are resolved. Nice post…
The modernist Muslims you speak about are not interested in anyone else becoming Muslim. Allah knows their hearts, but they act as if they are only Muslim by accident of birth and if they would have been born Christian or Jewish they wouldn’t have changed from that either.
Their goal is not to do da’wah to invite others to a different way of life, but their goal is to make the society comfortable for people like them who happen to have been born Muslim.
These immigrants are not that interesting of a story…most Christians and Jews aren’t that strong on their deen either. What’s more interesting, to me at least, is to try and understand the mindset of those who choose to accept Islam, to convert to another way of life, and then want to adopt a modernist interpretation of Islam. Personally I don’t come across too many like that in my day to day, probably because the Muslims I stay around present Islam the way those who introduced you to Islam (and the ones who introduced me to Islam) did.
Some of the phenomenon you’ve mentioned, though, results from people trying to manage a post 9/11 environment without getting labelled radical or fundamentalist. This is a serious problem because sometimes people are not saying what they really believe — this can only lead to confusion.
Allaah knows best.
Another on point topic. I would not have been Muslim if…..I thought the Yemenis and Palestinians selling alcohol and pork in my neighborhood represented Islam.
Be patient with the modern or progressive Muslims; they are just trying to create a safe space for themselves.
I agree too much time is wasted with this meet and greet mentality of trying to be like everyone else.
Not enough time teaching what Islam is and what Islam is NOT!
As Salaam Alaikum,
Hmmm, I don’t consider myself a “progressive” Muslim but I definitly identify with many of their goals when it comes to society.
I think that what many “progressive” Muslims are tired of this straight up HATE that many Muslims have for non-Muslims. Many, like me, are tired of hearing Muslims call someone a “kaffir”, when they have no clue about someone’s beliefs… they just go off of the fact that they may be white or black. Tired of people lableing everything “haraam” because its foreign to them. And tired of Muslims thinking that they have every right to be respected (i.e. not discriminated against and not be put under a cloud ofsuspicion), yet they treat non-Muslims with straight up disrespect and in a rude manner, behind their backs. Hypocrites.
I’ve witnessed this sort of behavior amoung many “orthodox” Muslims. Who spend their time quoting the Quran in arabic and have no clue what it means.
In Islam there are good Christians and Jews, this is said in the Quran… but unfortunantly many Muslims do not see this, most likely because they have never read the Quran, so they just go on hating. And this is my experience, so if you have another then I respect that, but I’ve been around a lot of Muslims from non-progressive backgrounds who are the traditional sort of type and this behavior is sooo common.
Tired of this “elite” attitude.
I don’t believe that progressives try to say that if someone believes Jesus is their Lord, or any sort of shirk, it’s the same thing as Islam. No. I think that many progressives just try to say that they have the same sort of background history, and becuase God does not condemn all Christians and Jews, then there are things that may have in common.
so, that’s it for me.
Thanks for this post. These proggies are really annoying. You’ve made a very strong and valid point. Kufr can NEVER be the same as Eeman. Such an obvious point missed.
Hmmm. Yes, I am a kufr, which in the Arabic means a disbeliever, someone who has something to conceal. But why not to become a Muslim? For the many mu’min behaving badly in the West would be reason enough.
Regarding Al-Qur’an I am not quite sure it speaks of “good” Jews and Christians. It does speak of People of the Book and Jews.
Correct in that we do not serve the same God. Far be it from Allah to have begotten a Son. My faith teaches that the Word became flesh. My faith teaches atonement. And yet, the life of Abdullah, father of Muhammad was atoned for with the raffling of arrows and the blood price of the camel, was it not? The prophet once said “I am the offspring of the two slaughtered” referencing Abdullah and Ishmael. (Ibn Hisham 1/151-155; Rahmat-ul-lil’alameen, 2/89,90.)
But yes, good reasons not to be Muslim, with Muslims exhibiting poor form in the West. smile
Tammy
‘Kufr can never be the same as Eman’ (Islam blog) is perhaps true to you but raises a more complex response in Islamic history.
Nearly every one of the ‘eponymous’ (note the word) ‘founders’ of the 4 Sunni schools of law were regarded in their lifetimes as rafid (apostates) and since the terms ‘kufr’, ‘nifaq’, ‘rafffid’, and the overused ‘mushrik all ovelapped, it may be no suprise to find that they had these terms ‘hurled’ at them too.
Malik ibn Anas was whipped. his student, the great Shafi’i, apparently was murdered in Egypt, while the trials and tribulations of Ahmad Hanbal are legendary, and need no re-telling.
Forget labels for a minute, including the often misleading one ‘progressive’, and consider the facts. They speak of horrible crimes. What we regard as esteemed ‘scholars’ are subsequent creations, men vilified and detested, re-vamped, dusted, presented as ‘orthodox’ once their contemporary relevance has almost vanished.
Does anyone read the great Ibn Hazam or even know of his madhab?
This raises ‘doubts’ about history. It does not question faith; it questions its construction. The people who we call ‘progressives’ are entitled to question the Islamic narrative as much as- if not more so- than a few contemporary men who define the faith for the world in the Middle East.
Its a legitimate enterprise especially for those living in the ‘West’
Umar, you said:
Do you honestly think that these fake Muslims by name want to give dawah? They practically on the verge of switching sides. They are not into dawah. They are anti-dawah and pro-merging of a Unified Abrahamic faith.
Too bad Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) was a Muslim and died a Muslim.
I embraced Islam based upon my reading of The Qur’an and hadith. Had I made a decision based upon either the “progressive Muslim” community or the wannabe Salafi community I would have run the other direction.
The fact that the Muslim community in this country, as well as abroad, is so completely messed makes me avoid the “Muslim community” at all costs.
Being regularly involved in the “Muslim community” can often be dangerous to your deen.
Like Imam Johari once said at Dar al Hijrah to a few hundred “born” Muslims at a Khutba I attended:
“I became a Muslim, not because of you, but DESPITE you”.
Alhamdulillah that God can guide others to Him, despite the twisted, messed up state the Ummah is in.
It proves the power of the faith when it can still succeed over the inadequacy of it’s own community.
Tammy,
I have no idea what you are trying to say. Sincerely, I just don’t get it. I just cannot stand it when people pepper their thoughts with Arabic phrases in order to come off as in the know. It is like a parent trying to be hip when they just don’t have a clue. “Mu’min behaving badly in the west.” Puh-lease.
The important thing to know is that everyone behaves badly. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, agnostic. Only Allah is perfect. In fact this is what will always draw people to Allah no matter what. In this sense, I have no doubts or worries because it is the sure reality.
What has allowed me to mature and not have a heart attack every time a person who has professed to be a Muslim does something sick is the realization that no one is immune to evil. I’m sure any Christian can relate to this with the horribly manipulative and deceitful televangelist circus that permeates our culture or the Crusades mentality that finds religious justification for selective war.
Tammy,
Another thing-kufr also means someone who is ungrateful.
Wow,excellent post!
I agree excellent post!
“a good chunk of these progressives are desi Muslims”
Not really. Desis are not disproportionately represented in the “progressive” crowd. If anything, they’re underrepresented. A quick survey of the biggest personalities in the “progressive” Muslim movement will turn up relatively few Desi names. For example, of the five directors of the now-essentially-defunct Progressive Muslim Union, only one, Tarek Fateh, is a Desi (and he’s from Canada, where the dynamics are slightly different).
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: these trends that you’re describing have nothing to do with South Asian culture or identity per se. They’re merely part of the suburbanite Muslim immigrant experience. I’m South Asian and I grew up in a suburban area where Arabs outnumbered Desis. Generally speaking, the dynamics of Arab children’s interactions with the larger community were not noticeably different from those of their South Asian counterparts (after all, most Arab Muslims have “funny” names and come from a “funny” culture too).
It’s simple and convenient to explain sociopolitical trends exclusively in terms of culture, but it’s not always accurate. It’s also a very easy trap to fall into with regard to South Asians, who comprise the majority of upper-class immigrant Muslims and are therefore the most visible group in this segment. But there’s nothing special about South Asians or South Asian culture that makes their experiences as immigrants any different from those of other Muslims. To Umar’s credit, he refrained from making sweeping cultural generalizations in this post like he has in some of his previous posts on this subject.
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Do you feel that people convert to Islam more so often when it is seen as some “strange” and “different” than otherwise?
Khalil
Salamu ‘alaikom. The briefly prominent American progressive muslim movement was invaluable to me as a bridge between my beliefs before, during, and after exploration and conversion. While I strongly disagree, sometimes quite vocally so, with much of their methods and ideologies, I can not forget the role they filled for me in a transitional, cushioning sort of way between a strictly secular, atheistic, and identity-politic centered worldview and a more God-centered, faith-centered, tradition-centered, and doctrinal viewpoint. Much though you are able to question whether you would have become muslim with them, I am able to question whether I would have become muslim without them. Which, for me at least, emphasizes the real point: we became muslim by the will and means of Allah subhana wa ta’ala, each in according to our needs. That does not mean I support the efforts of people with whom I disagree as I disagree with them. It simply means that I feel it is in error to indicate that the path to iman is opened or closed as readily as that by the hot politic of the day. We convert when our hearts are opened. And there are uncountable ways.
The definition of kufr which I gave, used by Jamaat e Islaami literature, is the connotation used by most.
While your god may be ar-Rabb, the one gives all things the power to grow and change, it appears the Ummah dwells within theological suspended animation. My religion went through a process of enlightment, hence tremendous ability to change which undergirded our industrial and technical revolutions which have caused us to outpace the competition in the East.
Meantime, thinking people as myself ponder An-Nisa 29 and al-Baqarah 195 and wonder why Islam sustains a growth industry of suicide bombers. So while a Qur’an riddled with bullets is offensive, and I would sustain offense if my theological treasure were also treated such, it is a lesser evil than riddling civilians full of holes with a suicide belt parked under a thaub.
I know some lovely Muslims. But statistically speaking, I worry about the crazy ones. More a post-9/11 phobia as opposed to Islamophobia.
Tammy Swofford
Don’t concern yourself with “Tammy,” Samira. She has a history babbling anti-Muslim nonsense on blogs. She claims to know an Islam expert, yet can’t tell the difference between a Kafir and Kufr(doesn’t know Arabic, what a shocker). I guess that internet correspondence course with some shady Imam(her claim, not mine) isn’t worth it. Atonement? This coming from the same people who changed their own religion to elevate a Prophet to the status of Allah.
What else do you expect from a member of the army and hopped up on the ol’ krusader kool aid? Atonement? Keep fooling yourself. Isa ibn Maryam(a.s.) has nothing to do with you hypocrites.
Mr Abu Sinan has stated a simple truth: the Muslim communities can hinder faith.
A wealthy Jew here on TV offeres the prospect of working with him but stresses a group of conditions: you don’t crawl or grovel because, as he states with disgust, he can’t ‘stand arse- lickers!’.
Desis never succeed with him. What is ‘objectionable’ about these so-called ‘progressives’ is that ‘reform’ is premissed perhaps on other grounds and has slippery, shoe-shine motivations.
Many of them seem to be Desis and, I should add, should be expected to be Desis. Sabir warns agains reductive assessments.
What is at issue is the dynamics of course, but the socio-cultural dynamics of South Asian parenting, cultural values and assumptions, lends itself to an accomadtionist politics.
Elites- his term- merely reinforce the values of submission, as long as it pays.
All this must-and I believe ‘does’- impact on ‘religion’, a religion often nurtured in jat or cast-like villiages of impoverished Punjab and Sind, where the art of getting-on under Zamindars (landlords) has been mastered long before reaching the Liberty Statue. Under American conditions, the notion of fiddling with a ‘faith’ to move up an beyond must be more favourable.
Looked at this way, Islam is the not the problem. It is not Islam that needs to be reformed, a point I imply from Mr Abu Sinan’s wise observation. But the real question is what Islam are we speaking about and, if its terms are defined, can we say that the vast majority of Muslim immigrants practiced it either at home or abroad?
Many of them seem to be Desis and, I should add, should be expected to be Desis.
No, many of them are NOT Desis. As I mentioned, only a handful of the progressive Muslim movement’s leaders are Desis. The rest are ex-hippies, Sufi-types, and immigrants from various other ethnicities. Desis account for no more than their proportion of the Muslim community at large.
What is at issue is the dynamics of course, but the socio-cultural dynamics of South Asian parenting, cultural values and assumptions, lends itself to an accomadtionist politics.
This is a really vague and conclusory generalization. And given that Pakistan itself is constantly plagued by factional tension and violent challenges to the central government’s authority, it doesn’t even make much sense. I could just as easily point to events overseas to conclude that South Asians are a belligerent people who are averse to accomodationist politics.
…a religion often nurtured in jat or cast-like villiages of impoverished Punjab and Sind, where the art of getting-on under Zamindars (landlords) has been mastered long before reaching the Liberty Statue. Under American conditions, the notion of fiddling with a ‘faith’ to move up an beyond must be more favourable.
Most Pakistanis living in the US are originally from large urban areas that are far removed from the zamindar system both geographically and culturally (does it even make sense that large numbers of poor Pakistanis living under oppressive zamindars would somehow find a way to immigrate to the West?). Other South Asian Muslims are from India and Bangladesh, where the zamindar system doesn’t exist. So you’re using an institution with which only a few Pakistanis have had any direct experience to explain the dynamics of all South Asians living in the West.
As I’ve mentioned before, these kinds of simplistic generalizations about South Asians are convenient ways of explaining complex phenomena, but they don’t really stand up to scrutiny. You seem to be projecting your own insecurities about being Desi more than anything else.
M. Landers,
Thank you for your excellent comment. It’s always good to hear from a variety of viewpoints.
I suspect some of the issue may be that not all of us are thinking of the same people when we talk about “progressive” Muslims.
As-salaamu alaikum
I disagree with the sentiment expressed in the post and comments. I read the Qur’an and through my own study of Islam–without dealing with any Muslims personally–I accepted it as truth. I accepted the Qur’an as God’s Word.
But I couldn’t begin to practice Islam, not for a while, even though I actually did convert! Something as simple as hijab gave me pause, but honestly I couldn’t practice anything in Islam–not the prayer, not Ramadan, nothing. I was reading on internet forums, and all the Muslims were just too strict for me, and I got strung up in all the details.
I finally broke out of that, and after a few months of praying and actually beginning to socialize with Muslims, I was able to start wearing hijab. It wasn’t the Muslims that made me embrace Islam, but because of them I was finally able to practice properly, and I’ve only grown from there.
The Prophet (S) told people to spend time around good Muslims, comparing their good company to a seller of perfume, and advised them to avoid bad company, which he compared to a blacksmith. Being around the blacksmith might cause one’s clothes to be burned, or at the very least start to smell bad, but the perfume smeller might give the person some perfume, or at least being around him will make the person smell nice. The people we are around does affect us.
But on the other hand, it is ALLAH who guides people to Islam, and not Muslims. And while some people might be guided through these different groups, Allah may teach them true Islam from that path.
Sabir, nice response brother. I accept the criticism of the generalisations. But they were intended generalisations.
I predicted your response; but I did not bet on it being so sweet. The sour tone, however, was nudging not towards rural stero-types (of course the Subcontinent as experienced urbanisation) or just Pakistan (the Subcontinent comprises several nations) but towards a deeper statement about feudal, corrupt societies.
These breed a certain instinct in people. If coupled with historical specifics, such as the the manner Islam arrived in the area, the Hindu Varna system which proved resistant enough to drag both Mughal and British conqueror into its complexities, it suggests we are dealing with a peculiar system of social differentiation.
It is that systme that shapes Desis (in most States in the Subcontinent). This arguement is somewhat artifical too: radicals here in UK appear to be entirely Desis (Asians).
But they are not the majority (Media aside) and there is a good case in saying that thier ‘radicalisation’ (usually through the medium of Arab speaking self-styled Imams) is precisely in response to the socio-cultural factors in their communities (faliure of accountable leadership, hierarchical structure of community relations, and the attempt to conceal these problems by self-serving accomadationist politics). I should add, a failed politics.
Again, these are generalisations. We must be careful of them. In this regard, I must inform you that I am not a ‘Desi’. Islam and progressive has disappeared from our debate. This may indicate that Islam is not guilty; and, as abounooralirlandee has affirmed, we may meaning different things when we speak about progressive.
Dr. M,
Well-read. Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips, Abul a’la Mawdudi, Alaa al Aswany, Yusuf Qaradawi, Muhammad Asad and books from Islamic University Al-Madina Al-Munawwara line my book shelves. They only make “the shelf” when they have been read in entirety.
As usual, a smart non-Muslim scares you so you invoke the mother of Isa. Somewhat Catholic sounding don’t you think? smile
*What I write in the private corridor is what should scare you, respected Dr. M.
Tammy
3:65 O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Why do you dispute about Ibrâhim (Abraham), while the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) were not revealed till after him? Have you then no sense?
3:66 Verily, you are those who have disputed about that of which you have knowledge. Why do you then dispute concerning that which you have no knowledge? It is Allâh Who knows, and you know not.
3:67 Ibrâhim (Abraham) was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Muslim Hanifa (Islâmic Monotheism – to worship none but Allâh Alone) and he was not of Al-Mushrikûn
3:68 Verily, among mankind who have the best claim to Ibrâhim (Abraham) are those who followed him, and this Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and those who have believed (Muslims). And Allâh is the Walî (Protector and Helper) of the believers.
Ibrahim (alayhi salam) had nothing to do with the jews and christians, nor was he upon their beliefs. Therefore, the only “Abrahamic” faith is Islaam.
Hate me because I pointed out the truth, which is how most people typically react when Salafis expose falsehood.
Salam alaikum Daoud,
Akhi, ma adri kull maa qalaati. Yani, arif al kalimaat min al Qur’an al Hakiim…Uriid aqul ashayan bil inglizii..tayyib? Biduun fitna…sah…
I accept this verse, brother. But when we speak of Jews or Christians do we mean that in a Qur’anic sense or in a more modern sense?
Does it include those who uphold halacha or abide by Catholic dogmas? Or is it broader definition, including a cultural and political understanding of faith, which covers Zionist and those in the West who do not have any faith?
Respected Daud,
Ibrahim had nothing to do with Christians because we were not in existence yet. The timeline is wrong for that comment. My community post-dates Christ, who post-dates Ibrahim. Your historical timeline must be adjusted.
“Behold the angels said, ‘Oh Mary! Allah gives you glad tidings of a Word from him, his name will be Christ Jesus, son of Mary held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company) nearest Allah”. al-Imran 45, translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.
The recounting of Ibrahim is backward looking to what you believe to be his root identity. The Taurah did recount a promise to Ishmael that out of him would come twelve princes. It also pronounced him a wild donkey of a man whose hand would be raised against his brothers. Too true today…..smile.
Tammy
You doth protest protest a bit too much, Tammy. Naming random Muslim Sheikhs doesn’t impressive me, nor convinces me you’ve read their work. If you were anywhere near as knowledgeable as you make yourself out to be you wouldn’t get Kufr and Kafir confused as you did. Hardly Catholic to point out to the hypocrisy of those who claim to worship Isa(a.s.).
That doesn’t make you a scary non-Muslim, it makes you an amateur theology student(in the US army which may explain the disingenuous attempts to “study” Islam) and a poor one at that.
as-salaam alaikum brother
You are right of course but also wrong. To those who hate the “system” the fact that Islam is radically different is very appealing. However many people dont, attached themselves to a systemic identity (e.g being proud Americans) and the presentation of Islam as the extreme antonym of the system doesnt attract them but repel them. Maybe its a class thing. For such people emphasising the commonalities between islam and the west is much more likely to guide them to truth -without watering down the message. In the UK many political Islamic groups with there Islam vs the west rhetoric have put people off-since by joining Islam you’re joining the enemy in a war.
The morality and spirituality and brotherhood Islam offers in a world of immorality matreialism and conflict are still its most potent weapons
Assalaamu alaikum,
I definitely relate to the original article and some of the posts.
I’ve caught myself thinking about my non-muslim parents and saying to myself (according to how some are portraying the deen) — they are good, have good manners, believe in God, they give charity, have sound moral values; so why ever would they be Muslims? What is the incentive?
This is the logical end point of the “we’re all the same” mentality.
Sometimes I feel as there are whole groups of muslims who look down on converts as if we are really stupid. Like, you guys were part of this culture we admire more than our own cultures. This amazing, punctual, clean, organized, superpower culture. You were Christians (or Jews) whom we see no real difference between us Muslims and them. So why did you leave? You must be stupid or brainwashed by wahhabis or ignorant, uncultured, common muslims. I feel like some people think this way. They would love to have Islam as the thinnest veneer covering a wholly western, judeo-christian, secular substance.
There is a profound difference between before and after Islam. Those who have not experienced Islam after disbelief or messed up shirk quasi belief or thinking Prophet Muhammad (saws) was at best misguided at worst the antichrist (may Allah forgive me from saying this even) — they don’t get it.
The difference is stark and real. It’s the realest thing. The trend of obscuring that difference is disturbing to me.
It will show up especially in the youth if the message is there is no difference and “you’re ok, I’m ok”.
As a major side note, I don’t think it’s helpful (even though I’ve thought it many times myself) to go down the “I would never have accepted Islam if…” road. Or “I became a Muslim despite the Muslims” or “love Islam, hate the muslims” attitudes.
It is very much “poor me” (and again, I myself have felt similarly).
I have been so disappointed by other muslims. But I’m also sure I have disappointed others, been rude to others, been totally unreasonable, got persnickety about a detail of the religion thinking it was a fard and it was just one opinion, etc. etc.
My Islam is not something to blackmail others with — “you should have better manners or I might leave the deen” — or put down others — “you all are rude, ill-mannered, disappointing, misguided, blah, blah, blah but I will deign to hold onto my deen in spite of you.”
What are these impossibly high standards we impose on each other? We’re like these hyper charged perfectionists.
Every (what I would consider banally human) failing of Muslims – especially the trifecta of being late, disorganized, and overly serious — is seemingly the cause of the fall of the entire ummah and its oppression around the world. Or just a convert’s reason to quit the deen. Subhan Allah.
I’ve never had some generic dude in a baseball cap flip me the bird in traffic and because of that think about maybe renouncing my citizenship. I never waited in the never-ending line at the DMV seething that I’d been betrayed by the ideals of the US. I’ve never gone to a filthy fast food restaurant and felt like, man that’s it, can’t be an american anymore, it’s just too hard.
Yet, the thinking is, if muslims are rude or late or the masjid is not as organized as it should be or it’s messy, or someone offended me, or criticized me, or horror of horrors had a bad day and gave me a dirty look — BAM — I’m ready to give up my islam and blame it on the muslims, or keep the Islam but make sure they know in excruciating and melodramatic detail about how muslims have failed my great expectations.
What is that all about???
got somewhat off topic there but had to get it off my chest. phew :)
Jazakum Allahu khairan.
” Verily, among mankind who have the best claim to Ibrâhim (Abraham) are those who followed him, and this Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and those who have believed (Muslims).”
Except that jews and christians don’t think Mohammed and Muslims followed Abraham but that they misinterpreted him and said he said things he didn’t say- in short, that they got it badly wrong. Apart from that, there are a lot of people who don’t think Abraham was a prophet anyway.
Falstaff
“Except that jews and christians don’t think Mohammed and Muslims followed Abraham but that they misinterpreted him and said he said things he didn’t say- in short, that they got it badly wrong. Apart from that, there are a lot of people who don’t think Abraham was a prophet anyway.”
so what? they have no evidence that their books are preserved and accurate and they also think that the other has misunderstood scripture.
“And they say: None entereth paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian. These are their own desires. Say: Bring your proof (of what ye state) if ye are truthful. (111) Nay, but whosoever surrendereth his purpose to Allah while doing good, his reward is with his Lord; and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. (112) And the Jews say the Christians follow nothing (true), and the Christians say the Jews follow nothing (true); yet both are readers of the Scripture. Even thus speak those who know not. Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein they differ.”
Quran 2:111-2
Um Hana subhanAllah magnificent post
jazakAllah khayran
salamalikum,
UmHana, great post mashaa Allaah.
To this:
“I’ve caught myself thinking about my non-muslim parents and saying to myself (according to how some are portraying the deen) — they are good, have good manners, believe in God, they give charity, have sound moral values; so why ever would they be Muslims? What is the incentive?”
So what is exactly the incentive then? Of course, Tawheed and true belief in Allah (swt) without any partners, without claiming He (authu billaah) has a son, calling to eternal Paradise, calling to the way of all the Prophets.
But how should one deal with this in a practical manner? you should write an article about this since you are in this situation. May Allaah help you to be a link between the Muslims and non-muslims and for greater da’wah and understanding, ameen. May He azawajal help us to please Him, ameen.