Thank You Bosnian Mujahudeen

Posted on July 31, 2008 by Muslim Bricks| 27 Comments

This entry was posted in Muslim Issues and tagged Bosnia, jihad, mujahudeen, serbs. Bookmark the permalink.

27 Responses to Thank You Bosnian Mujahudeen

samaha | July 31, 2008 at 7:57 pm | Reply

Umar,

First off, yes it is very sad that the international community left the Bosnians defenseless.

It’s also sad that Islamic countries are investing millions of dollars into post-war Bosnia – into rehabilitating mosques according to what they think is Islamically proper and removing our heritage from these mosques and into building enormous Islamic centers. It would have been nice to have some economic investments so that Bosnians could in turn build their own mosques but hey, we can’t be trusted to do the “Islamic” thing.

Second, I want to say that by no means am I making a blanket judgement on all Mujahideen because I know that there were those that went out there because they couldn’t stand watching their Muslim brothers and sisters being slaughtered and their heart was in the right place. However, and this is very shameful – there were Mujahideen out there that thought that we Bosnians deserved what was happening to us because we weren’t Muslim enough for them – they should have turned around and went home then.

Instead – what we have now is a wahabi movement going on in Bosnia that is being run by left over Mujahideen. Did you know that Bosnian men get paid a monthly stipend to be wahabi – grow their beard, niqab their wife/wives .. spread the idealogy? It’s not that big but hey .. we’re not idiots .. we’ve been bullshited by socialism for how long and you think we’re going to now allow another movement to come in and outright try to deny us our culture?

There are areas in the FY that are having problems from wahabis .. like mosques being shot at by wahabis.
Umar Lee aka/ Double H | July 31, 2008 at 8:53 pm | Reply

Samaha,

thanks for the compliment. I do not accept the legitimacy of the label wahabbi on anyone as it is a slur and a name people do not call themselves. Getting paid to be salafi is a charge often made and seldom proved. It is more often than not the accusation of those who cannot ideologically or theologically compete and are losing warm bodies. Shooting at masjids is never condoned; but the other things you mentioned such as growing the beard and wearing the niqaab are all admirable. Also, I will say, while most of the mujahudeen were somewhat salafi in nature there were also Sufi mujahudeen from Turkey although they were fewer in number.
samaha | July 31, 2008 at 9:08 pm | Reply

Umar – I know people who are getting paid – 200 convertible marks a month. Also, I know Bosnians here in Chicago that claim themselves to be wahabi.

Growing the beard and the Niqab can be a beautiful thing when it is a choice but when it is done because you have to do it (yes husbands have forced their wives to do so) or because you are getting paid to do it – it is then something ugly. There is no reason that these things have to be taught to be the “only” way. Dimiye and a shamiya are also beatiful – we do have our won culture.

Like I said there were those who were there with a good heart – salafi, sufi .. I’m sure from both sides – I just wanted to point out the other side to Mujahideen. You did say something about Bosnians who don’t like them .. so it kind of got under my skin.
Yusuf Smith | July 31, 2008 at 10:19 pm | Reply

As-Salaamu ‘alaikum,

I have very strong memories of that period as I was just coming of age during the Bosnian war. The fact is that there was very strong support among the British populace for intervention in Bosnia, and almost from the beginning, i.e. from when reports about concentration camps and mass rape started surfacing. The problem was that the British government at the time was a notoriously mean and petty-minded gang of rudderless former Thatcher yes-men who, besides hitting elderly people for tax on fuel because they were desperate for money while being unable to raise income tax, were preoccupied with securing peace at any price in former Yugoslavia, so besides the arms embargo on Bosnia, which still allowed the Serbs to get their weapons over the border from Serbia, they blocked Bosnian refugee immigration to the UK, in an effort to force the Bosnian government to accept partition. It was not the populace that sat on its hands, it was the government.
Rasheed Moore | August 1, 2008 at 3:43 am | Reply

Umar, Subhanallah this has been on my mind lately I was going to podcast this but I can’t seem to locate my recorder. I will post this on my blog shortly…

They Say We Was
Young White Confused
Learned The Deen
Learned A New Language To Speak
Most Of Us Came From The Street
Or Had A Soul Incomplete
So We Filled Our Empty Cups With Iman
Some Of Us Sent To Bosnia
Others To Afghanistan
Some To Egypt
Others To Saudi
Grateful To All The Shaykhs That Taught Me
Never Followed No Man
Eminem Not A Fan
Not No Stan
We Related More To John Walker
In Afghanistan
Or My Ak Randall
How Is Your Bid
Wish I Could Hold It Down
For Your Kids
Wish I Could Handle
Wish I Could Trade Places
My Ak
But I’m Stuck In The Dunya
So It Seems They Got Us Both On Lock
Our Minds Defined New Racial And Social Lines
Ahead Of Our Times
Etched A New Face On The Planet
We Were The Last
Unafraid To Tread A Different Path
Some Of Us Sacrificed Until Our Last
Sent To Bosnia To Blast
Took Shots At The Enemy
Like Sayfullah
Another Friend Of Me
Another Casualty
Stay Patient My Ak
Your Story
Will Out Live Your Mortality
You Have Something Missing From Man
No One Is Willing To Stand
Everyone Is Playing They Hand
Everyone Is Doing It For Dolo
Seems Like The Teams Broken Up
And Everybody Went Solo
No One Is Standing Up
For The Slaughter Of Innocent Babies
Everything Is Savage
Like A Rottweiler With Rabies
Survival Of The Fittest
Everything Added And Subtracted Like Digits
Our Souls They Want To Delete It
Raped Our Minds Repeated
But Iman Is So Strong That It Can’t Be Defeated
No Matter How Much They Try To Beat It
I Made It My Way Of Life
Concrete It
Aqeedah
I Tie It Like A Knot
Well Established In My Heart
And I Got It On Lock
anatoxin dust | August 1, 2008 at 4:11 am | Reply

When Muslims leave their religion they are going to be oppressed, either the Kuffar or the Muslim rulers or …..

Evil (sins and disobedience of Allah, etc.) has appeared on land and sea because of what the hands of men have earned (by oppression and evil deeds, etc.), that Allah may make them taste a part of that which they have done, in order that they may return (by repenting to Allah, and begging His Pardon). [30:41]
abunooralirlandee | August 1, 2008 at 4:45 am | Reply

Umar, Jazzak Allaahu Khayr for your comments.

Samaha, I really appreciate your perspective but I have to agree with Umar that your charges seem to be pretty weak. Umar is internationally famous for his willingness to criticize Salafis but saying that they grow beards and wear niqab — are these supposed to be bad things? They spread the ‘ideology’ — are you talking about tawhid? Like I said, I’m sure the Salafis in Bosnia make some mistakes just like all people do everywhere but from your post I’m not sure what they are.

May Allaah (swt) grant all sincere Mujahideen the highest levels of al-Firdaws and may He (swt) put in our hearts a desire to be like them.

Umar, I also liked your comment about Salafis being paid as a charge frequently made and rarely proven. As Shaykh Yasir Qadhi points out, if one looks at Islamic history different centers of wealth and political power have always promoted different madhabs, methodologies, ‘aqidah’s etc. Sometimes for sincere intentions, sometimes for self-interest. This is a fact of humanity. Why do we think there are so many Hanafis today — because the Ottoman Empire adopted Hanafism. Secondly, I always wondered how come most of the Salafis I knew were a lot poorer than most of the Sufis I knew and I always bought all the Salafi books I had when I was always told that the Salafis spread their ideas through Saudi oil money exclusively while the poor Sufis couldn’t get their ideas out. Again, I’m not denying Saudi put some money into spreading certain things and some good and some bad came out of it….I’m just saying the charges made by people sometimes don’t compute with my own personal experiences…at least here in the U.S.

Allaah knows best.
samaha | August 1, 2008 at 4:59 pm | Reply

abunooralirlandee –

I’m sure that with comment moderation you haven’t seen my reply to Umar but I’m going to reply because there still needs to be some clarification.

“saying that they grow beards and wear niqab — are these supposed to be bad things? They spread the ‘ideology’ — are you talking about tawhid? Like I said, I’m sure the Salafis in Bosnia make some mistakes just like all people do everywhere but from your post I’m not sure what they are.”

No – niqab and beards aren’t something bad (my grandfather kept a beard in pre-war Bosnia and I do have fond memories of him and loved his beard) but that isn’t the point. You’ll often see Bosnians saying that all that they stand for is beards and niqab and the reason is because our culture is denied us from this group. Our culture is full of art, literature, music, philosophy .. arguing .. and much of our culture though many Bosnians were not aware of this and many are not aware of this now has a sufi background – so even our religious traditions are denied us. For example – we celebrate the prophets birthday with Mevluds, we memorialize the deaths of our people by having the Imam do a Hatma which we follow with Yasin and something we call a Tevhid where we do zikir. We have ilahije (nasheeds) and often women perform them in Mevluds or we have major orchestral nasheeds that we do on the prophets birthday and eids. All of these things are haram to this ideology – so yes – we have a problem with people trying to erase our culture. And let me give you an example of how it is getting bad – this is a nasheed that is done by a woman: http://samaha.wordpress.com/2007/08/04/ilahije/ and on the top of my post there is an update whith a link to the criticism of it .. that criticism is comming from Bosnians themselves who never had problems with this before. Then there is this piece of propoganda: http://samaha.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/the-veil-a-critique/ – and please get over the scarf issue because it goes far beyond that. We are a tolerant people and always have been but in the former post you see an adaptation of our traditions (by a Bosnian) to spread animosity towards the west – pitiful.

“Again, I’m not denying Saudi put some money into spreading certain things and some good and some bad came out of it….I’m just saying the charges made by people sometimes don’t compute with my own personal experiences…at least here in the U.S.”

I think you need to see what it is like in Bosnia – the economy is bad, most people do not have jobs – they live off of 200-300 convertible marks a month for those that have jobs and the cost of bread is the same that it is here (I think you get something like .8 convertible marks for a dollar – just to put it into perspective for you).

Saudi has invested mega bucks into restoring our mosques and unfortunately they try erasing our culture through that as well – in the most famous mosque in this part of Europe – they refused to restore the artwork and removed what was left as it was too Turkish and that is haram – I think that the Bosnians have invested into bringing it back to what it once was. You wouldn’t believe the amount of money that was invested into mosques and madrassas – yet we have other relions going out on missions and caring for our orphans and placing them into non-Muslim homes. There are lots of books that have been brought in from Saudi …. there’s much to say on the matter but yes, people even get paid to be a part of this ideology – I know of some and they are people that are obviously doing it for the money. Create the image of a growing movement and eventually people will come to it on their own. Shame…. shame …. shame

Thank god for people like Hafiz Sulejman Bugari who actually are out there bringing people back to Islam on a spiritual level, who recognizes the importance of our traditions and culture and who are investing their time into fighting drug addiction and the real problems that our community faces – otherwise I think this whole haram this haram that group would be the end of Islam for Bosnians except for a select few.

The war for everyone outside of Bosnia ended when the images stopped being displayed on the tv but the devestation is still ongoing. 6,000 Mujahideen in the war – thank you for those of you with the good intentions – shame on those who stayed to fight the greater jihad against the Bosnians instead of staying to help us rebuild our country, provide for our orphans, provide for our brothers and sisters who lost limbs, fight the drug war. And – on another blog I spoke to a man who told me that while he was with Mujahideen – there were those that said that we deserved what was happening to us because we weren’t Muslims.

And yes, there are even those that stayed because they fell in love with our country and aren’t out there trying to change everyone – and to those Mujahideen – Bujrum!

But people – we need to stop being so gullible and stop being judgmental with people who have a problem with what is going on in Bosnia because they KNOW what is going on and live with it.

Also – while I’m here – I really don’t like this romantacizing Mujahideen – there are other issues involved with this as well. It seems like a promotion for fighting Jihad – but how can we truelly know that any situation is truelly a Jihad AND – even within Bosnia some grave atrocities were commited upon non-Muslims by the Bosnian soldiers and by foreign fighters – how can we really justify going to foreign lands to fight the ‘enemy’ especially in cases like Bosnia where there is no assurance that civillians won’t be killed? And if people are going to be praising Mujahideen – it is important to also bring up what is not acceptable of Mujahideen and that even Mujahideen commit injustices. If those points aren’t brought up then those actions which do get media attention and so we all know about them then become acceptable through silence. I’m only bringing this up because I’m picturing some teen young man looking at these types of posts and being inspired to do this but no one is talking about the reality of war and the difficulties a Mujahideen may face and that he may very well by the shock of what he is going to face turn to some unIslamic actions.
Hamdi | August 1, 2008 at 5:36 pm | Reply

Samaha – You know for sure that these people receive 200 marks a month, for what? Wearing the hijab? You’ve heard them say it themselves as opposed to having them pointed out by others? I’ve heard this accusation many times and I’ve never seen someone actually getting paid for practising Islam/being a Salafi and I am myself a Bosnian Salafi so I know a fare share of them. Who gives them money? I mean, since I am myself a Salafi, maybe I could get a piece of the pie. Who do I turn to? If I were to believe some people, I would only need to go to the British embassy, since they are the ones that are giving money to the Salafis in an effort to destroy the Ummah (and this kind of a claim has been repeated even by a minister in the Federal government!). I’m not surprised to hear these kind of things, though. There is some truth to what Paddy Ashdown said: Bosnia is the conspyracy theory capital of the world.

As for the label “wahabi”, didn’t ef. Ceric himself (and I could see from some posts on your blog that you admire him) reject that label, stating that there are no wahabis in Bosnia? I am aware that there are problems with so-called wahabis, I am myself worried by the active takfiri groups that spread their ideas, but I also know how much lies have been spread about Salafis since I am one of them. From the slur that we are, collectively, on a pay-roll to the claim (spread by Senad ef. Agic) that we believe that Allah descends just like a human being because ibn Taymiyah said so (which is a lie).
Pingback: Out and About in the Islamosphere and a Global Voice « Samaha
Rasheed Moore | August 1, 2008 at 9:49 pm | Reply

Samaha,

I feel you on where your coming from with the erasure of culture however there are always ways to preserve our culture while not violating the basic tenants of our deen if we are creative enough.
samaha | August 1, 2008 at 9:57 pm | Reply

Hamdi – rekla sam da cemo se svadati :-)

No – I’m not getting into that part with you.

“As for the label “wahabi”, didn’t ef. Ceric himself (and I could see from some posts on your blog that you admire him) reject that label, stating that there are no wahabis in Bosnia? I am aware that there are problems with so-called wahabis, I am myself worried by the active takfiri groups that spread their ideas, but I also know how much lies have been spread about Salafis since I am one of them. From the slur that we are, collectively, on a pay-roll to the claim (spread by Senad ef. Agic) that we believe that Allah descends just like a human being because ibn Taymiyah said so (which is a lie).”

Reis Ceric taught me Arabic and was/is a family friend – that does not mean that I will agree with everything he says – so let’s get that straight right off the bat and let me also say that having known the man I also realize that he is very much a politician in the true meaning and not just a religious figure .. that should have come through in my posts as well.

“I am aware that there are problems with so-called wahabis, I am myself worried by the active takfiri groups that spread their ideas, but I also know how much lies have been spread about Salafis since I am one of them.”

Do you or do you not know? You know I did say wahabis and from my understanding wahabism and salafism are two different things.

As for Senad ef. Agic – he as well is a close friend and my Imam and again – this doesn’t mean that I take everything he says to heart or that I agree with him. If you have a problem with anything he says – take it to him – he’s a reasonable man that is willing to listen and reason – I’ve had many arguments with him myself.

Let me know what you think about attempts at erasing our culture.
Zulfiqar | August 2, 2008 at 3:15 pm | Reply

Salam,
It is very sad that people are trying to disect hair. Why we try to make our deen complicated when it is so simple. There used to be only sunnis and shias, now there are futher divisions wahabis,Ahle Sunnat, deobandi,salafis, etc who dont even like to talk to one another despite having the same main sect. Where are we headed? Why dont we get it
Lakum deenakum waliya deen. Can somebody translate that?
Hamdi | August 2, 2008 at 7:35 pm | Reply

Samaha – Hehe, pa dobro ja sam mislio da se necemo svadjati na tom websajtu. Sada smo na novom, onda je druga prica. =P

Of course you don’t have to accept everything Reis Ceric says, I never meant that. The reason why I mentioned him is because I know that you respect that man (and I respect him as well) and that his opinion, considering his knowledge, is worth mentioning on this issue. As for your point that he is a type of politician, well we all know how impopular “wahabis” are in Bosnia and that the most politically correct thing for him to do would be to bash the “wahabis” since the media and the general Bosnian Muslims did the same, especially during that period when he said it. He received (rather harsh) criticism from Mustafa Spahic and Resid Hafizovic if I remember it correctly. So I think that his statement about wahabis came out of a conviction and not because of strategic thinking or something like that.

It doesn’t matter whether wahabism and salafism are synonymous or not, to the media and the general people in BiH it is.

I didn’t know that you are friends with Senad ef. Agic. I only mentioned him because I wanted to show that even knowledgable people and influental people spread blatant misinformation about “wahabis” (or Salafis, what have you).

As for the attempts at erasing our culture, then first of it has to be pointed out that our Islamic culture in Bosnia has been different in the past. For instance, you might even hear imams in Bosnia criticising the niqab whereas it was undoubtedly a part of our culture before Communism. Even the actual practices have differed over the years. For instance, the amount of raka’at prayed before the khutbah on Jumuah hasn’t always been four as it is today. That tradition is only about 100 years or so old. Some religious traditions are even pre-Islamic, such as Ajvatovica. Others have been adopted from the Serbs such as the practice to have someone carrying the tombstone (or in this case, “woodstone”) in front of the people that are carrying the dead body to its grave.

So I will tell you what I think of this by asking you this question:
As I am sure you know, some people place food or water by the window when someone dies. This is obviously a non-Islamic practice. If someone attempted to erase this practice from the Muslims in Bosnia, would you condemn it as an attempt to erase our culture?
dawud | August 3, 2008 at 9:24 am | Reply

Samaha and Umar, you may be interested in “A Bridge Betrayed: Religion and Genoice in Bosnia” by Michael Sells, on how initial tolerance was destroyed by ethnic rivalry and enflamed by ‘religious’ bigotry:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=FAdxZ6F2uEAC&dq=a+bridge+betrayed&pg=PP1&ots=UySjSF55aM&sig=H7tOB0A6VZtvbgqR6zYI5ZxlnO4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

he’s a historian, who has recorded much of the war and stood with the Bosnians – and has recorded much of the destruction, human and cultural, in Sarajevo and Bosnia in general:
http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/reports/wahhabismbuddhasbegova.htm

the above article has photos of the ‘renovations’ that some Saudis paid for: you tell me whether you think they were an improvement or a crude elimination…
samaha | August 4, 2008 at 2:38 pm | Reply

“So I think that his statement about wahabis came out of a conviction and not because of strategic thinking or something like that.”

I don’t think so. I’m sure Reis enjoys the money being spent on constructions of Mosques and Madrassas and wouldn’t jeopardize that either.

As for Senad – as I said – talk to him about it he’s reasonable (also I haven’t heard him talk of this subject).

As for our culture – different parts of Bosnia are different and I don’t remember Niqab being a traditional dress in Bosnia. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if their were pockets within Bosnia that did adopt this form of dress.

No, I’m not aware of the food and water but I do know of customs like bringing sugar and eggs to the family that just had a baby or throwing water behind someone that was leaving the house. None of these things even if adopted from another custom are necessarily bad – they are not hurting anyone and they are not intended in a manner that is unIslamic or as a way of idol worship. Just like the tespih – we are allowed to do things that do not stem from Islam.

Still – I was referring specifically our religious traditions .. to mevluds, tehvids, ilahiji i kaside, our architecture and specifically interior design – our shamiye and dimiye, our fezs and chakshire etc.

Dawud – thanks – I’ll look into it.
Hamdi | August 4, 2008 at 8:21 pm | Reply

samaha – Well, we can’t really know what the Reis’ real motives were. One thing that cannot be disputed, however, is that there isn’t a movement in Bosnia calling itself the wahabi movement. Therefore, it would be prudent to actually pinpoint who these people are and what they stand for and evaluate whether or not there is any legitimacy to their ideas, Islamically. My personal conviction is that there is much legitimacy to their ideas. If nothing else, they fit within the broader scope of ahl al-Sunnah wal-Jama’ah since they are basically proponents of the athari aqidah and usually within the framework of the Hanbali madhab (even though they are famous for not insisting on following a madhhab blindly).

I think that we have mixed up the issue a bit when it comes to the culture discussion.
Bringing sugar and eggs to a family that just had a baby, the fez, caksire, dimiye, shamiye, etc. are all cultural phenomenons. I mean, the fez wasn’t even specific to the Muslims and even Serbs would wear it. This matter is divorced from religion. It doesn’t matter what hat I wear as long as it isn’t something peculiar to a particular religion such as the hat that the pope wears or something.

So I wasn’t talking about customs, I was talking specifically about our religious traditions. For instance, the custom to put food out when someone dies has to do with religion since it deals with the afterworld and has to do with the souls of the dead.
Also, my parents used to throw water behind me when I began my first day of school. It was supposed to give me good luck and I would say that this is superstitious and is related to religion. I don’t know if other families do it for the same reason (to bring good luck), but if they do, then this is a superstitious un-Islamic practice.

As for mevluds, tehvids, ilahije i kaside, the mosque architecture etc. Well, all of these things have to be judged in the light of the Qur’an and Sunnah. If the evidence extracted from these two sources show that any of these practices is in fact un-Islamic, then I would say that the best thing to do would be to abandon an un-Islamic practice. However, if it is a matter of disagreement then I think that we should be tolerant. I, for instance, don’t think that the mevlud celebration is a valid Islamic practice. Neither the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) nor the Sahaba practiced it, to give you an example of the arguments I’ve heard against this. However, I know that there are ulama that say that it is okay to observe the mevlud. For instance, the great scholar Abdullah bin Bayyah wrote a fatwa in which he said that it is okay to gather on the birthday of the Prophet (sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) and perform certain ibadat. Now, I don’t agree at all. However, this is his opinion and if people want to follow it, then it is their choice.

As for the niqab, it was indeed a widespread practice among Bosnian Muslim women. I know for sure that it was practiced in Bosanska Gradiska (by my own family members), all the way down to Mostar. We even have our own word for it in Bosnian: “feredza”.
http://muslimeurope.wordpress.com/2007/05/21/feredzaniqab/
samaha | August 5, 2008 at 9:43 pm | Reply

Hamdi – Okay – I know that people have stated they are “wahabi” but I will have to acknowledge that just because they stated that they are “wahabi” does not necessarilly mean that they believe that they are wahabi but that they are trying to prove a point to people who do not understand their ideology. Either way this happened in a location in which the population is not happy with the way in which certain people are trying to teach Islam – the Imam had gone so far to not step down when asked to by the Islamic Council in Bosnia. So, I’ll desist from calling anyone wahabi. Please though – could you tell me what this man is and to what group the stage destroying boys belong to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXX1JyDUkm4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZLiZdqIpsY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwdTdQMICQQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-39aBwhYus4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_vKi4cUyLk

I’m all for exposing any ideology that is going to promote not abiding by laws because they are not Islamic laws or taking over sunday schools to teach Islam and in the process scaring the children to death and thereby prompting the Imams to lock them out of the mosque (and that man is directly threatening these imams).

We will agree that superstition has no part in Islam and I do believe in educating the Muslim population in regards to this subject. Although, throwing the water while saying a dua – to me sounds a bit like nit picking on rituals that our elders like to take part in. But, knock on wood, we’ll eventually learn that some of our customs are just silly.

You may be tolerant of our Mevluds (but what about zikir and tevhids?) but not everyone is going to be. Eventually, you’re going to see girls being harrassed for riding a bicycle because it is unIslamic soon after that you’re going to see a push for a shariah state because it will be seen by some as an obligation and the right politically motivated person could spur such a movement – and you and I both know that shariah can not work in Bosnia.

As for the ‘feredza’ – the word feredza means coat it was only at the end of the 19th century that a veil was seen used in Bosnia – by sources that I have read. Widespread? Maybe – but it is the context in how it was used that is important. Some say that the veiling seemed to be a fashion statement brought in from Istanbul – the woman in villages did not veil except for on occasion when some may wear it into town (not all of them did though) – which points towards a fashion trend rather than a ‘religious’ obligation. Also considering that Sarajevo was at one point a major market that people from all over the world would come to, ie. the middle east, asia, europe, etc.. it would not necessarilly mean that women that have been pictured or drawn are Bosnian women.

Still – quite honestly I’d have to do much more research on the matter since the one photo you have on your site and other photos that I have seen which also seem to show widespread use of dimije and shamica seem to be of excellent quality even though they are from 1926 – fine details and not much blur have me suspicious. Also – is that link to youtube of yours nazi footage from the war? I’d like to know what point the nazis would have liked to have portrayed with this and is it real.

Also – this collection: http://www.bosnafolk.com/mozaik/slike/index.php?x=browse&&pagenum=2 has many pictures by the same photographer and only a few portray the niqab – although I’m still amazed by the quality of the photographs – hardly grainy and no blur at least in the niqab one and just because the site has artwork from a couple of the same artists does not mean that the artwork represents actualities.

I’m not saying that women in your family didn’t wear niqab – I’m saying that we need to understand why they wore it – was it a fashionable item – were they at some point living in another country and adopted the clothing – was it that they considered it a religious obligation.

Anyway – I don’t see the necessity to go backwards when Islam is compatible with contemporary society and democracy.
tammy swofford | August 7, 2008 at 3:24 am | Reply

“Leave the beard” at-Tirmidhee (2763)

smile

Tammy
Hamdi | August 7, 2008 at 3:31 am | Reply

By the way, a newspaper in Bosnia reported last month that Saudi Arabia is donating money to help Bosnian refugees to return to their homes. They will also be investing money to help the economy. In other words, they are doing exactly what you wanted them to.
Hamdi | August 7, 2008 at 10:30 pm | Reply

samaha – How am I supposed to know what group the “stage destroying boys” belong to just by seeing a blurry video where I can barely hear what he is saying? It is obvious that others would caracterize them as wahabis, though. From what I can tell, these guys thought that they were forbidding evil (which is a command in the Qur’an) but, in my opinion, they were acting unwisely.

As for rahmetli Jusuf Barcic (the other man in the video), he is someone that I respect for his knowledge. If you have a translation of the Qur’an in Bosnian by Besim Korkut (the most popular one in all of Bosnia), you will see that Jusuf Barcic was hired to proofread that translation. Look it up for yourself if you have a copy of the translation.
Now, I wouldn’t necessarily agree with his approach in the videos in which he is visibly angry, but you have to remember that he did that because he felt that the people were going against the limits set by Allah. He was angry because of a gheerah (protectiveness) for Allah’s religion.
Still, even though he is respected for his knowledge, there were people (even “wahabis”) that didn’t agree with him. This group isn’t monolithic.

I didn’t intend to talk about boys destroying stages or the actions of particular people, what I meant with us having to pinpoint them was the actual ideology, and you did address that briefly. But it goes deeper than that. Again, what differentiates these people from others is first and foremost their aqidah.

Superstitious customs are more than silly, they can lead to shirk and that is where the danger lies. You mentioned the “knock on wood”-thing. If someone knocks on wood thinking that this will improve his life (or keep the status quo), then this is a type of shirk. If someone thinks that his future lies in the way beans fall or the way his spoons look, then this is also a type of shirk. Am I wrong? I’m not saying that they become non-Muslims and mushrikeen. But it is un-Islamic and shouldn’t be accepted.

I think that we are kind of on a different page. Girls being harassed for riding bikes and people calling for sharia in Bosnia is one thing. What I am talking about is a general understanding of Islamic aqidah. I think that the Salafi aqidah is the correct one, that is my stand. I don’t feel like commenting on (or defending) particular actions of people, or hypothetic future scenarios.

As for tehvids and other Bosnian Muslim practices. I included that in my general response in which I said that every religious practice in Bosnia should be judged in the light of the Qur’an and Sunnah. Specifically when it comes to tehvide, I don’t feel that the Qur’an and Sunnah support such a practice. That is my personal conviction.
samaha | August 8, 2008 at 9:07 pm | Reply

Hamdi (trebo si traziti mustuluk) I did not know that. Alhamdulillah for that and shukren to SA.

Well, I guess that makes everything all better and I now have absolutely nothing to complain about – hehe.
Zak | August 19, 2008 at 6:19 pm | Reply

The Bosnian Wart was a disgrace, no European country wanted to help and they all left it to the last minute to intervene when bosnian muslim bargaining power was significantly reduced. NATO only intervened when it became evident that Bosnia was receiving Saudi support and Iranian arms. It was felt Bosnia would become an islamic state right within Europe.

Remember the Dutch ‘peacekeepers’, they stood aside and allowed the Srebrenica massacre to happen, how about the pictures of the prisoner camps, which reminded you of Hitlers Coentration Camps and the mass rapes. Furthermore the UK government was very hands off, trying to delay everything and imposing an arms embargo that strongly favourd the serbs remember Douglas Hurd, the then Foreign Secretary, well after his tenure was over he was rewarded with a directorship with a major Serb bank by Slobodan Milosovic!

The Bosnians were very far from islam, they mixed with the serbs, never attended mosques and yet that was their fate, it should serve as an important lesson to every single muslim, no matter how integrated you are, you will still be their target.
fastaqim.blogspot.com | September 12, 2008 at 11:22 pm | Reply

It’s really annoying to hear Bosnians and Albanians always accuse “the bearded ones” of getting paid by “the arabs”.
Umm Uthaymeen | September 19, 2008 at 10:27 am | Reply

Wow, i skimmed thorough all that lol.. and what i have to realize is that, this Samaha character is a sufi and practises celebrating the prophets birthday, which is not allowed, listens to music, which is not allowed, does group dhikr, which is not allowed… and this whole wahabi stuff, like subhanallah he was a man, leave him alone, He followed the Quran and Sunnah and if following the quran and sunnah makes you a wahabi, then so be it…
ps. Shaving the beard is Haram, also i believe every woman should be wearing a niqaab…
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Robin Hossain | October 5, 2008 at 12:35 am | Reply

No Thank you Umar.

Those who gave their lives in defense of the sisters and the children in Bosnia don’t need or want the words of a ‘desi’ bashing white racist muslim.

“O ye who believe, enter into Islam wholeheartedly”